2020 Balance Megathread

Discussion in 'Balance Discussions' started by killerkiwijuice, May 30, 2020.

  1. killerkiwijuice

    killerkiwijuice Post Master General

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    This thread is a continuation of 2019's multiple threads on balance. I've decided to merge 2020 balance into one thread.
    Air Balance 2019
    Bot Balance 2019
    Vehicle/Econ Balance 2019
    Naval Balance 2019
    Orbital Balance 2019

    This thread is for serious and organized discussion about TITANS balance. Balance can be highly subjective so solid data is encouraged but not required.

    This thread should foster intelligent discussion about balance that people may have, and they will require people to post: (you can include multiple changes in one post, but this thread doesn't encourage large reworks on the scale of entire balance mods)
    1. Your vision of what the unit or category of units should perform on the battlefield
    2. Exactly which changes you wish to make to the unit
    3. Why you wish to change this unit
    4. How you think your change will impact the battlefield
    5. (optional, highly encouraged) data showing exactly how the new changes affect balance
    No changes to legion or other factions shall be considered.

    For a reference post, see this older yet relevant air suggestion:

    For simplicity, the discussion should closely follow the latest patches only. See news about recent patches here:
    Clopse and lulamae like this.
  2. killerkiwijuice

    killerkiwijuice Post Master General

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    T1 and T2 fighter dynamic changes

    T1 Fighter (hummingbird):
    1. Their purpose is to deny raids and be a QUICK response to air control. They are main source of HP and fodder in an air force.
    2. Max health: 150 to 130
      Projectile ammo initial velocity: 150 to 110
      Projectile ammo max velocity: 150 to 110
    3. These changes greatly reduce the degree of snowball. It allows small air groups to challenge larger air groups with good micro. Careless air forces are punished more, while careful forces are rewarded by player attention and tactics.
    4. Air engagements will need to be more calculated and they will require more attention to be successful. Air to ground raids will be more risky for the air user.
    T2 Fighter (pheonix):
    1. Their purpose is to hold more strategic locations in the air and provide high DPS output against air armies. They should be much stronger with the help of t1 air fighters.
    2. Max health: 300 to 280
      Acceleration: 80 to 50
      Brake: 80 to 50
      Move speed: 80 to 65
      Turn speed: 270 to 225
      Projectile ammo damage: 150 to 180
      Projectile ammo initial velocity: 150 to 130
      Projectile ammo max velocity: 150 to 130
    3. These changes enforce the player to use pheonix as the main DPS of an air force rather than both HP soaking and DPS.
    4. Good air engagements will be more reliant on micro and the random trades are reduced. It will emphasize a use of scout planes as vision, as a player using an air force will want to know how to position their pheonix. Air engagements with no micro are largely unchanged. Furthermore, the hummingbird is able to challenge t2 fighters more effectively now. With increased damage, the t2 air fighter is able to take out higher HP air units more easily only if the fighters are positioned well.

    elodea and lulamae like this.
  3. thatsonofabroom

    thatsonofabroom Member

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    is this metal for metal? Hummingbirds are actually better for tanking damage than Phoenix are. The phoenix is only better in the sense of dps. I agree with all changes listed here I'm just curious how this was tested and giving u some info
  4. killerkiwijuice

    killerkiwijuice Post Master General

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    The trades are definitely more metal efficient than the current balance. For example in the last video there was a total of 80 hummingbirds for 39600 metal vs 12 hummingbirds + 13 pheonix for 13740 metal. We were left with 2640 metal worth of hummingbirds. Keep in mind the t1 force was not microed. It's also a bit hard to balance for-metal with air fighters because there's a bit of randomness in the trades.
  5. gmase

    gmase Well-Known Member

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    Hi there!
    Nice explanation. I think those changes are good to achieve your goal but I don't like the goal.

    I think PA is a macro-oriented game and this seems like crazy micro intensive matrix-like missile dodging. It could be interesting in a pro level 1v1 but in a big game, 2 fighters killing your entire air force because you were distracted elsewhere doesn't seem right.

    Air is already taking a lot of players focus and this will make it even worse. If a player loses air dominance, he should try building land AA or something else, not rely in his micro skills to make up for his strategic deficiencies.

    It also looks like the starting point of a dangerous path to a starcraft-like micro.
  6. killerkiwijuice

    killerkiwijuice Post Master General

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    Well, I showed that this doesn't affect unmicroed air forces at all.

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