Wow, Way to totally make this game spam tastic!

Horrible build!

Spam bots, Spam Bombers for defence and game over. Soon as you got those t2 bots and bombers (if you enemy asn't been killed by the constant harassment for your t1 spamming) then its only a matterr of time before they fold because they have not been able to expand. If they run they lose as they give you the planet and by time they get anywhere its game over as they may as well be stating a new game while you eco is through the roof.

Tanks? Useless, Defences? Useless against this kind of harassment and 20%-30% of the community know this.

So all thee changes equate to nothing in the biggeer pictue as its back to the bot spamming of alpha days!

I know its beta but come on!!! This build is just aweful to play with cheese tactics. Ill be waiting till next build before i ty again.... AGAIN!

Yet the good players continue to win exciting games. Check out their videos for tips so that you can improve your game and last longer.

Not to mention Scathis' has barely started balancing, give it a bit more time before you start railing against the Devs.

Mike

t1 spamming? I guarantee you I can beat you by using t2 only unless we spawn super crazy close

I think defenses should be beefed up a bit to help counter the larger swarms, and bot/vehicle balancing still needs work.

But these problems fall into the balancing category, which has just begun.

patience young wippersnapper

We had that before, it didnt work well.

Walls are still the most OP unit in the game though. I can guarantee your t2 bot swarm will never get past my wall without arty support if I get an even moderately sized choke point in your direction.

my t2 bombers dont care. They are truly the most imbalanced unit in the game right now.
Not complaining, I know it's balance in progress

You say "spam units" like it's a bad thing. Hate to say it, but one of the things the core of this style of game is "Build early, build often". Always be building. Units. Defenses. Factories. Economy.

The balance is still very much a work in progress, but at least for now, why everyone starts on the same planet, going the pure turtle route is a risky game to play against more aggressive players. IMO it's _always_ risky, but I've also seen it be fairly effective from time to time. Even in the latest build.

Play a bit more, get comfy with the current numbers - though they will continue to evolve quite a bit. But while there's no right way to play, ultimately, the game is about conflict, and getting into the fight. That usually means having an army. I don't really think of making lots of units as a pejorative, which is how you're using it.

i'd like to point out that artillery is still a valid counter to swarms. just not as much as it was before this build. before, they functioned like friggin' sniper cannons, happily pounding your blob into mush. now, they can still help your turrets out, but they are no longer your first line of defense.

and another thing? WALLS, bro. use them readily. cover every vital structure with walls. it will save your bacon repeatedly. because no amount of turrets can stop a horde if they are going to get blasted two seconds later. Walls buy them precious time to kill their attackers unharmed. and i personally throw in catapults into my defenses, to replace the T1 sniper ca- err i mean artillery turrets of old.


....though i certainly wouldn't mind a sort of cannon turret......

My experience is the opposite.. Pelters used to be pretty OP but I think artillery is much more useful against blobs now with the massive splash damage. Seeing that Holkins fire eat a giant hole into my precious blob of bots makes me cringe every time..

Edit: reading comprehension failure.

IT IS for some people. Great if that is the prevailing playstyle of some of the devs but that's not everyone's thing...

Can't I do that without spamming? If I'm always building but I'm pouring my resources into something big (like a Fatboy from FA) wouldn't that still fit your "Always be building. Units. Defenses. Factories." philosophy?

"I hate to say it" but swarming isn't they only way to play an RTS, it isn't the only way to have big scale, it isn't the only way to emphasize macro, it most certainly isn't the only way to have fun. I know balance is coming but if the only viable option in PA on release is to swarm units I'll be pissed.

Garat, are you saying swarming is a core ideology of PA? Cause that's news to me!

I said building a lot is a core tenant. I'm not the one throwing around terms like spamming and such. If you have an opponent who builds lots of units and uses them aggressively, there are a number of ways to oppose them. The OP seems to indicate there's only one way to counter (even with WIP balance, that's clearly not the case), and that there are no other options. There are. Is everything in yet, and all the possible counters? No. Of course not.

Swarming isn't the only way to play, but is a valid and very effective tactic and learning how to counter it is part of the experience of becoming a better player.

I'm saying what I'm saying, but keep in mind, all this is still very fluid. Not every tactic or counter is where we want it to be. While the game itself is starting to get pretty nicely fleshed out, the balance and unit interactions are still very nascent.

Thanks for the reply! Can you go into detail about Uber's vision for possible counters to unit blobs that aren't, in and of themselves, unit blobs (regardless of type)? I'm not asking for you to divulge specific units, I'd just like to know where Uber stands as far as play-styles they intend to make viable through balance (ie. teching, turtling, etc)

You mean like the Holkins or nucks?

I don't think it is really possible to do away with spamming. More of anything is always better after all.
Yes you can introduce some mechanics to stop it, but still you won't solve the general "problem".

I don't want to stop swarming, I just don't want to have to myself. I want other viable options

Even a few pelters are incredibly effective against unit blobs. Some well placed walls and point defenses can do some pretty impressive things to unit blobs. Mine fields? Also effective on helping to deal with them.

That's a few examples off the top of my head. Do those always work in every scenario? No. If a swarm of advanced tanks and arty's come in, you better have some serious base defenses. But for mobile? Other than units blobs, not sure what else you're looking for. A single advanced bomber can absolutely shred unit blobs.

Woah, don't go overboard on the turret defense. Tanks can always fight tanks.

I think he might mean mobile ground units that you don't have to build in swarms to be effective. Though advanced bombers are very efficient against unit blobs, that's true. I'm just wondering what T1 bombers are good for?