What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital combat)

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

No, thats not what i meant, i meant that its not realy "noise" as in something you hear with your ear (it was meant for any that may read this thread and arent as technical as us) xD

And as said, noise isent realy random. But the result may be as close to random as it can be (Its practicaly random, but not in theory).

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

It didn't matter how exactly you get the number. You may a lot of hardware techniques (including insane huge machines based on accelerators and quantum uncertainty) for generating practically perfect random number, but it is such only until you stored it. Once you stored it, it's possible range is clamped by amount of your available memory (or, more likely, by size of variable, like 2^32).

It's a huge range and it's absolutely enough for all practical tasks, but it's not the same as random intellegence. Binary computers are incapable of generating true random. Quantum computers also, AFAIK, lack true randomness (as they are still discrete, iirc).

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

Human beings, by this logic, also lack random intelligence. We also store things on a physical medium at some point, and we also have limited processing power to do calculations with.

So it's not much of an argument, really. The only difference between humans and robots at this time is processing power and available space. Machines simply cannot match the human brain's parallel processing abilities, nor our abstract data storage methods, but that'll change eventually.

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

Yes, I may a lot of hardware techniques.

Protip: Discreteness does not exclude randomness. Take a continuous (if you don't know what that word means, it means not discrete) variable, then round it to the nearest whole number. Did you magically make it not random? No, no you didn't.

Also, if a quantum computer is truly random (unless you want to apply some wrong definition of random to it).

Now please, leave this thread and educate yourself.

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

1. Computers do not have "continuous" variables. It has only their discrete approximations.
2. It's random, but it has finite amount of possible variations, so it could be predicted as well - each 2^32 you'll get same number. By using hardware tech you are only improving the distribution of numbers, making it more uniform.

"Random" in computer terms, as opposed to "semi-random" is algorithm/tech that will generate same number after a sufficiently big amount of launches. That is, probability of getting same number twice is low enough. But it's never zero.

Nature, on other hand, has true randomness, as there is a lot of low-level and high-level situations where probability of getting same state is zero (actually, there is a huge number of situations when you can't give any probability, nor make any prediction).

AFAIK, they are not. Quantum computer operating on q-bits, which are cool way to operate on all possible variants of some process at once. So you may crack theoretically any NP-complete problem within polynomial time. But maximal state size for said process is limited though, by amount of q-bits at hands. And, AFAIK, it won't help with NP-hard in general (with complexity like 2^n^n) and algorithmically unsolvable problems.

So, it's random, but not in way we want. You may build a cool quantum computer powered chess robot, that will predict all possible outcomes of current situation within few moments, but it's still a question how he should select between two trajectories with equal changes to win. And it won't help if you'll suddenly change the rules in a way not predicted by programmer.

Computers bound by rules. This rules called programs, they are deterministic and finite (of just finite, in case of quantum computers). Programs changing themselfs are still bound by rules.

It doesn't mean that AI couldn't be done, though. As definition for "intelligence" is subjective, you may make a robot that will behave like a human in most or all situations. But I doubt that computers are good tool for that and I doubt that it's any human would be capable to write something like that ever.

My education seems to be much higher than yours in that field, especially in algorithms theory. And telling opponent that he don't know anything without proving your point doesn't make you point stronger. The culture of dialog was established into ancient Greece so it's not something new and you should knew that already.

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

That's exactly why they would be constructing orbital units. A commander is not designed to do bombing runs so it builds bombers. It's not designed to bombard a coastline so it builds battleships. It's not designed to house nuclear ICBMs so it builds silos. It's not designed to battle in orbit so it builds units that can.

This is a possible explanation for why there are no massive intersteller fleets in game. It doesn't explain why a commander wouldn't construct orbital craft to use within the system it has been tasked with conquering.

The regular commanders are already commanding huge armies in 3D space... Tanks and airplanes and artillery shells take up 3D space. If a commander can handle hundreds bombers and ASFs and tanks and walkers and artillery batteries and point defense turrets and naval destroyers at once, it can handle a few space shuttles.

Anyway, this has gone way off topic.

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

The problem is that proper space bound forces can eaisly negate the point of fighting on the surface of planets without much of a greater cost.

But of course one point to consider is weight.

Getting stuff into space is expensive, and the cost of shipping an army to another world is downright prohibitive, so space borne forces are more then likely to be a small and weightless as possible to minimize the cost of going up there.

A rocket to carry a single commander is one thing, but the cost of carrying a space fleet into orbit would be insane, and that before the cost of moving them around a solar system...and to other solar systems.


We can expect satellites, unit shells fired from low gravity surfaces, and possibly some kind of rocket transport for the players troops other then the one shown in the trailer.

But any bigger and that would unravel the question to why you would ever land at all.

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

It's just a balance question though. I've said this once before, but one could say the same thing about aircraft. If you have gunships, why build ground units at all?

As to the cost of carrying a space fleet into orbit, what's wrong with orbital factories?

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

I agree.

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

Look, why make space ships when I can fly an asteroid around space and fire units form said asteroid then drive other asteroids in enemy planets? So, spaceships would be pointless.

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

Honestly i dont see how they could possibly make gas giants "orbital only" without having orbital "space ships".

I posted this thread ages ago with my suggestion on such units:
viewtopic.php?f=61&t=40426

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

You could also treat gas giants like a massive ocean, and fill it with naval units. All the land space ends up on moons.

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

.


That makes so much sense. The idea is that a single building producing unit named the commander could build an army in minutes while it would forever taking a ship to even get there.

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

except the commander doesn't teleport in this game, he's dropped by the egg, dropped by a space-ship

and PS check out Orbital Wars mod for FA, it worked.

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

By having flying boats. They weren't unique to the other Layers in any significant way.

Mike

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

I would be very disappointed if the orbital combat in PA came even close to resembling that in the Orbital Wars mod for FA. It felt poorly balanced, and offered nothing really new in terms of mechanics.

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

aw please guys, maturity first.

You know that's not what I was saying, I wasn't trying to compare either. I was saying it existed just a tiny rectification wich distinclty wasn't my focus in my reply. ...hence the P.S.

but the no tp for the com that stays a fact. unless he goes into a black hole.

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

Regardless, it's still cheaper to jet just the commander around rather than an entire planet conquering army. you still don't need to bring something with you that you can build within the hour.

When will people learn to say things instead of hoping anyone reading the post is a mind reader?

But I gotta ask then what you meant by saying Orbital Wars 'worked' considering the rest of us see it as a prime example of what we DON'T want?

Mike

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

It's really not that strange a thing to justify. The Commander gates somewhere within 1 million miles of the target, and rockets the rest of the way. It's not rocket science.

Re: What does no space combat/spaceships mean? (Orbital comb

Well...... :?

It IS rocket science in that scenario.