What do you think of the scale of Ubers Mega-bot.

True, true...

NANOLATHE IS HAVING A HISSY FIT! NANOLATHE IS HAVING A HISSY FIT! *runs off to treehouse*

What's your deal with megabots man? So long as they aren't the word of god in a battle, they're fine. Did a Monkeylord touch you bad?

Also, I'm not reading some long-winded post on why you think Megabots are banned by the Geneva Convention, and how they kill kittens. If you can't explain why megabots are bad in a few seconds, then your argument is weak and moot.

It is not their individual effect on a single match at all that concerns me. It is a change in focus for the game, Planetary Annihilation as a whole, that I worry about.

SupCom is undeniably not Total Annihilation... though there are vague similarities, the games play very differently and vary in many other ways than simply by gameplay. SupCom was a "spiritual successor" to TA but took away a great deal of what made that fist game such a unique experience.

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Just so you know where I'm coming from:

My Name is Nanolathe. An obscure word, "Nanolathe" is mentioned by name in Total Annihilations manual and nowhere else to my knowledge, certainly not within the game itself. I have been "Nanolathe"; a method of construction used in Total Annihilation and referenced only within the game's manual, for 16 years. I have never changed my Pseudonym in those 16 years because of the effect Total Annihilation had upon my gaming experience at the time, and continues to have upon my gaming experiences today.

My Name is Nanolathe, and I am a TA fan.
I liked SupCom...

I loved TA.

Do not be surprised when I defend the tone... the "Identity" of TA, over the Identity of SupCom.

I am a TA fanboy, first and foremost.
I make no effort to hide that fact.

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Oh and, by the way

If you think every argument can, and should be boiled down to a single or few bullet points... then all I can say is that you are not someone I even want to argue with.

If you can't handle a complex analysis of a complex topic, that's no fault of mine.

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Finally;
A Hissy fit? I'm actually rather pensive at the moment, remembering old times. Not really feeling in a "hissy fit" kind of mood. So you're wrong there. But good job trying to trivialise my ideas by brushing them off as Over-emotional. :roll:

Nanolathe: Was there really any need to pollute this thread? I've had your say in the other, more broadly defined threads, but this one was very clearly defined. And really, copy-pasting your previous argument? It really does seem like your just spamming any thread related to "mega bots" in an attempt to out yell everyone.

First tl;dr too. And i am usually over 2 hours a day on this forum daily. But still cant read all. Although skipping your's and ledarsi's enormous post helps.

How about, other people have other opinion then you?
Most of what you say depends on your taste.
But after all, you can't force your 'universal truth' on all the other people here.

Same as i can't force mine on you.
Edit: Btw i am also suprised of this poll.

Nanolathe, half of my post was sarcasm. You consider yourself a snark guy, call me a sarcasm guy. I understand that there are a lot of people that expect a direct sequel to TA, gameplay wise.

But I want you to think about the serious part of my post for a second. Do you really expect PA to be nothing more than another 'spiritual successor' to TA, with the ONLY addition being multiple planets and rocket ships? Like what SupCom did with Strategic Zoom, or what Command and Conquer did with their universal menu?

What made TA great is that it didn't have a single cool innovation, like different types of land units or streaming economy, but that it was a massive overwhelming tide of cool new things that made the player **** rainbows because of how awesomely amazing the game was. TA was a culmination of an awesome man's awesome ideas; radar, simulated projectiles, 3d unit models, naval combat, artillery warfare, jamming units, reclaimability, the D-Gun, ALL of that stuff. It's what made TA great; it was a completely different beast when set aside other RTSes of its era.

Uber has pretty much shattered any previous expectations for a sequel to TA, and seem to plan on continuing on their spree. Currently, they have orbital combat, metal war-artifact planets, rocket-propelled asteroids, Mystery Boxes and the Uber Gun under their belt. If they decide to include Super Units, it will simply be taking what a previous game did well (TA and SupCom) and presumably making it better.

That is my final argument. I don't care what you have to say, because you have proven yourself to me as stubborn and bull-headed, despite the fact that all Uber is doing is taking what they know is a good asset to have in-game and presenting the *possibility* of it to other people. You are also only one person, and if you hate Super Units that much, you don't have to use them. So stop clogging up the forums with your *persistent* reposting about how Super Units are bad bad and post something bloody PRODUCTIVE for once.


Speaking of productive, I think the scale of the - forgive me for this - Uber Bot, would be fine if the factories weren't so big. The idea of having a T2 Factory big enough to produce Uber Bots, and also producing units the size of its foot, with nothing in between is a bit bizarre.

Well most of Nanolath's argument is based on the size of the mega-bot. And all his points are very valid. Either the bot or the ship is wrongly armed...

No there wasn't. Not on vanilla TA anyways.
I played SupCom when it was new. I still play TA from time to time up to the current day and I really get where Nanolathe is coming from
They are two different games and I really hope PA will feel like TA and not like SupCom or I will have played PA when it was new and will still pull out TA from time to time in the years to come. That would be a sad future xD

Yellow

It was called Krogoth, and it was in the Core Contingency expansion. It was no more than 2-2.5x the size of normal units though.

You are making the (wrong) assumption that Super Units don't alter the core gameplay. Introducing super units means changes have to be made across the game to accomodate them, everything from economy to unit power of lower tiers to engineer assist rates. You can't just ignore them, because the game would be built around them. They aren't just tacked on.

I'd have to agree with Nanolathe, it's too utilitarian. I believe in specific support roles for mega bots, for example, lots of rockets, AA, etc. This thing has artillery, rockets, cannons, energy weapons... It's is a one size fits all unit, and I don't like it. Granted, it is a white box, but we'll see what Uber has to say.

Well, if the gameplay itself has to be altered to accommodate a super unit, something is wrong. I think everybody is assuming to much, all we have right now is a render with a legged box.

Well if there will be a commander less mod or option, i can't see a reason why there woudln't be a experimental less mod or option.

Try playing SupCom like TA. Turn off all game enders and Experimentals bar Nukes. Play an even semi-competent turtle player. Tell me if you can beat him without resorting to Nuke Spam... My bet is you wont.

Experimentals/Mega-Bots/Super Units... call them whatever you like, change the gameplay focus and core gameplay balance. They need to justify their existence. Eye Candy is not enough of a reason.

Scale wise, this Bot is all over the place. I've said it before and I'll say it again; Size is not the same as Scale. I've addressed scale already.

If you ask me what the size is like, then I have no answer because I don't know what this Bot is FOR. Size is meaningless without a purpose for it.

Again, this Mega-Bot needs to justify its existence. Why is it here? What does it provide that 20-30 tanks don't? There are no shield-walls to break, no insurmountable defence now that there is the Unit Cannon. If there's no defence that can't be subverted... then what reason does an assault Bot (which this looks like) have for existing?

I ask you Uber's Mega-Bot; Why do you exist?

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Also mushroomars, Please don't tell me what I can and cannot post. I'll listen to a moderator if they say they have a problem with my language or posting style. If you have a problem you can try talking to me in a civil manner first, rather than resorting to sarcasm for a first try.

Considering some people like what I'm posting (and some even like my posts in their entirety, snark and all) I'll keep posting in my preferred manner, thank you.

To address your points;

• No I don't "just want TA with planets and rocket ships".
• I'm pretty sure that SupCom implemented more than "just" the strategic zoom as a new idea.
• I don't "hate" Super Units. You're the second person now that's trying to put words in my mouth.

If anything you asked me here was sarcasm and you're unhappy with any of my answers, I suggest you drop that style of posting.
Not because I dislike it, Sarcasm has its place as a tool for ridicule, but that you're much less likely to get an actual answer to any valid question you ask.


Oh, and before I forget;
insanityoo I was actually thinking of retiring from posting anything in Mega-Bot threads for a while. May still do so if I get bored of restating the same problems that people are consistently ignoring.

I have a high threshold for pain though

Not pathing into itself preventing half of its offensive potential from being utilized?

Is that all?

That can be solved with better path finding. No need for a whole new unit type.

nanolathe for presidente!

/facepalm Of course! They'll just use the betterPathFinding() function instead of the crappyPathFinding() function. Why didn't I think of that?

The problem... for lack of a better term the bug... is the path finding. That's what is broken.

When something is broken...

• ...you fix it.

You don't scrap it and find something else.

I feel like any bot that is 3 times larger then the commander is too big.

Only buildings and ships (When necessary) should be so big.

So with the scale I actually agree.

In my opinion it is too small.
And that is whay i am here talking about.

For every other discussion of gameplay aspect i will wait till a possible testing phase.

I also think it's too small. It's the size of a t4 bot, some kind of 'better' unit than the rest of them. It should have a unique role in the game, not just be a bigger version of a t2 bot.