Vanguard Testing from Meta

That cookie isn't big enough. Think BIGGER!

Vanguard splash need to go. also with that being said air transporter shouldn't be able to pick up a unit that needs more than 1400 metal.

because I think it's a rather dirty tactic; dropping vanguards in the middle of a base.

But it feels so good.

I know I pulled it on my friend and he lost within 3 seconds. In this PA build if your commander can take out and prioritizes it seems air transports with their anti aa missles

AA is grossly underpowered right now....Max sat a froup of four fighters on top of one of my AA turrets a few days ago....

None of them died....and they had taken at least 5 hits EACH.

Also, Vanguards OP. Once again.

http://pastats.com/replay/10125370035599322793

Vanguards totally invalidate map control. This replay shows just how pointless it is to try anything other than the t2 rush (at least when you have a few metal spots near your commander). This guy mostly just sat in his base and fought off my attacks while building up a single vanguard death ball to send right at me. Those 5 or so tanks killed my main base and then wandered around the planet killing anything they got close to before they found my commander. There was nothing I could do without vanguards of my own to counter them. The t2 race is back!

Resistance is futile.

Thanks for the share. I'm definitely gonna take a look at that.

T2 units, particularly Vanguards, completely invalidate T1. So PA revolves around getting to T2. Get to T2, win. That's just... well, I don't like that gameplay.

Yeah I'm fine with strong t2 but this balance sort of eliminates the whole point of fighting on a big planet. Why bother making bases all over and opening up lots of little fronts when the other guy can just walk in the front door and burn everything down?

It reminds me of the balance where Uber tripled T2 economy.

Who cares about map control when I need less than a dozen metal spots?

With the new Commander Eco changes, I'm predicting this stuff will come back. There's no need to expand when I can get to T2 in under 5:30, and then pump out Vanguards and Shellers and win.

I'm sure they'll adjust the balance again to put more focus on map control. It's not an easy balance because too much focus on map control means you expand without fighting. Too little and you get something like this where you need a little metal and a t2 factory to win.

Just watched your match.

Holy freaking cow. That was terrible. You played well, you expanded, you raided. It didn't matter. T2 is king.

Commentated it and uploading/editing it now.

Edit: the video is exporting right now. It should be public in an hour or two.

If that doesn't prove that vanguards are OP and convince Meta or Scathis to nerf them big time I don't know what will..

What if the vanguards get a massive turret spin speed decrease?

They spin as fast as the commander.

I know this happened to the T2 tanks and they are no where near as effective as before.

Considering that the main purpose of a Vanguard is to just move forward and level a base, it won't mess with Vanguards much.

Furthermore, Vanguards are most effective when backed by Shellers, and shellers can eat through armies with ease.

Here's the commentated video:

You got Vanguards within three seconds?
No wonder they're OP

Well if you think about it, this would mean you would not even need to kite vanguards, you just flank them, and they're sort of bound to lose.

The main issue with Vanguards is Vanguards getting into a base.

Vanguards aren't a huge issue against an army unless you just send your units straight at them. Besides, all you need to do is mix in some Shellers and/or Levelers and the Vanguard turret turn rate doesn't really matter.

lol, nope this is that airdrop strat. people are using with vanguards. last patch they were op as heck.

The video doesn't show T2 imbalance as much as it shows the viability of a massive early rush. Yes, vanguards and shellers are a bit strong and could use a little more nerfing, but Conundrum definitely didn't play very well in the face of woobie's strategy.

At 7:30, woobie has 10,000 metal worth of units heading towards Conundrum's base. Those 6 vanguards could instead have been 60 rippers or 40 infernos or 30/20 of each respectively. It doesn't really matter, because at the time you can clearly see that Conundrum didn't have anywhere close to the number of units he needed to stop any of those attacks. He was too busy spending his money on tons of fabbers and tons of T1 energy to support those fabbers while they build a second T2 factory. Meanwhile his first T2 factory is building an advanced fabber and every other factory is split up all over the map and can't possibly help defend against this attack in time. Conundrum had also scouted the T2 factory at 4:05 so there really isn't any excuse for him not immediately dropping a T2 or multiple T1s to prepare.

The real conclusion that I got from this match is that it's not correct to gauge someone's skill on how much economy and map control he can get. You can argue that shouldn't be the case, and while I agree that someone with superior map control should have an advantage, Conundrum just took it to such an extreme that it was a detriment and lost him the game. I think it's better that players should have to balance between expansion and military production in order to defend against a rush like this.