Uber, do you agree PA needs a huge UI update?

I'm not trying to claim that it's hard to get that it's not accurate, I think the issues are going to be communicating to the user what the issues (i.e. how it's not accurate) are and actually becoming comfortable with dealing with those issues. I think it will create a barrier to being able to play well or enjoyably, and will turn off new players who will expect it to be accurate because these 2d maps always have been in the past.

I'm personally not saying "NO PROJECTIONS EVER!!!111!", I'm just saying we should peruse all other options before settling on a 2d projection.

People have been saying 'pursue all other options first' for months and months, and zero alternatives that are actually *better* at showing a complete overview have shown up.

As of now, the best options, in order of showing a complete overview of the battlefield are:
Projection Map
--> Icons sticking out from behind planet
--> multiple camera views of planet surface
--> Transparent planets
--> Current UI.

Aw man you're totally right, it's so obvious to me now that there aren't better alternatives because they haven't been able to try any them yet![/sarcasm]

Mike

Hey, I'm just pointing out that shoving projection mapping to the back of the pack on some imaginary 'better' solution isn't the greatest argument to have. The point is there hasn't BEEN any better alternatives to talk about, let alone try!

Anyways. I'm not against trying all sorts of things, the more concepts the better - the viewcube concepts being talked about in the other thread are very interesting as well.

Then I'd have tyo say you haven't been following along with the threads that talk about this kind of stuff.

Mike

You really underestimate the human brain. I believe it would take at most 3 games to do make any player comfortable with it, without any special communication about it.
Because our brain does that every day, for almost everything.

I have no precise example in mind, but I'm pretty sure a lot of games had some special visualization for radar. And I'm pretty sure you've understood it immediately without you needing someone to tell you "the red dot next to you is not next to you, but maybe on top or bottom of you".

The ONLY fact that a lot people are crying "deformation" when we talk about projection is already a proof of that : They already know it will be skewed. That's something almost everybody knows. And if not, when you will see a straight line of unit going on a slight arc in the corner of the map, you will realize it.

And if you don't realize it, does it even matter? You will see red dots coming at you, that's really the only thing you need to analyze. "Red dots coming toward my blue dots = bad".

So, no, it doesn't need much explanation.

Pawz, I was the one who suggested the Viewcube.I pulled it from AutoDesk's family of software, the same Viewcube is used across their entire family of professional software, everything from AutoCAD, Navisworks, Revit, Maya and 3Ds Max
For those that don't know, that's engineering, construction coordination, architectural, animation, 3D rendering.
I am more than proficient in 3 of those.

It's not meant to replace the "I see everything" minimap/projection, but it's a compass.
So that you always know what is "up" and what is, and you never lose your direction sense.
The Home button is there to make sure you can always find your way back, well, home.


In my opinion a projection is the best option we have on the table right now.
The distortion is really minimal when you look at it.


If you're fighting 6 planets at once.
You have 6 windows for them open.

It's really your only option to see everything at once.
Without having to touch and fiddle with any of them....

With a hologram projection, and with the proje

Icons sticking out from behind planet = can't see behind planet
multiple camera views of planet surface = extra windows needed, less intuitive if you have to "stitch" them back together in your head
--> Transparent planets = not bad, but stuff on far side isn't clear.
--> Current UI. = is a joke. We know that and Uber has confirmed to know that.

I'm a VFX supervisor using maya on a daily basis, and I've never used the viewcube. I actually hates it

First of all there has been lots of good discussion in this thread. I agree that the primary focus of the TA/SupCom/PA game lineage should be maximizing situational awareness and UI efficiency. The game should be about what the units do, not mastering the art of fighting a user interface to make them do what you want.

What I am amazed no one here has stated is the current view of the planet IS a projection! The planet is a sphere, your monitor is a plane, mathematically it has to be a projection. From my estimation, they are using a General Perspective Projection in the game. If you need any more confirmation, zoom out in the game and issue some long range move orders. The vehicles will very clearly move along a curved path.

The problem with this projection is the only reason one would pick it for a game like this is for aesthetics, because it looks like how you would see the planet if you were a distant observer looking down from orbit. From a strategic command and control/situational awareness perspective it quite frankly sucks, there is no reason for my to rehash all the reasons why, they are clearly stated in this thread. However, one that has not been brought up very much is the ability to refer to an area on the map to your allies over comms. Right now telling someone where to go or look is basically impossible to do with any efficacy because everyone's view of the map will be different and there is no easy way to get to a common view to describe a location by (IE grid C-7, or the lower left of the map, or whatever system you choose to use). Right now, though, everyone has their globe spun a different way and it is quite tedious to describe a point on the map to someone not looking at your screen. Assuming developer resources are available better projections should certainly be made available, the player should be able to pick the view that he is most comfortable with.

Agree with the_pilot
I m using CAD software every day (CATIA, 3DVIA COMPOSER, SOLIDWORKS), the cube or the compass tools are completely useless (in term of navigation and space orientation)...

@jsamilo Welcome to the forums!
And wow, that is one seriously well put first post.

I agree with you. The lineage of TA/SupCom/FA/PA is about a wonderful UI.
It has been that the player can control a large army on a larger map and it grows with each generation.
The UI is not supposed to be in the way, ever.

I am doing my best to track down every last community UI suggestion here:
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/unofficial-official-gui-discussion-thread.52055/

Your suggestion has also been brought up before.
[SUGGESTION] Navigation ~ Latitude/Longitude Grid in both Planetary and Star System View. Labeled so we can use it in conversation. Ex. "Boats in C5 need to die".

Going for your first post, you're going to be a most welcome voice of reason here!
Keep it up!

Lols at you guys hating on the compass tools.
Zep, us supervisors are probably super smooth with the software we use.
But the newbs (and old farts), get turned around quite easily.
@SatanPetitCul , I can't speak to the ones you are using. I haven't touched them.


But if the compass is useless, do you guys have a better suggestion on how to give the player a bit of orientation?
Most people are getting lost. They simply don't have enough context on where their camera is located.

locking the north pole orentation to the top, which is already integrated.

@Pawz, it is actually extremely easy to navigate exactly to which planet you want, all the while doing a quick spin in between to your preferred face.
There is no info right now because I just wanted to show a graphical overlay of seeing everything.

It should be populated from data from each planet showing Metal deposits, percentage of water, as well as how many Halleys it will take to move.
It is meant as a direct replacement for the current celestial view. Not much more than now.
Except there are 2 benefits.

1. Removes that jarring experience from jumping from Planet View to Celestial and Back again.
2. If you jump from Planet View to celestial, you lost the last camera position. You cannot directly zoom back to your base, commander or the enemy front lines without having to "click, pan, click, pan" around the whole planet again.
3. You also lose orientation. But now, you can see your base or the enemy base on approach.

I didn't suggest this because it's "pretty".
I think it keeps the user experience more fluid and more consistent and allows for a greater degree of control when jumping in between planets.

Maybe I'm a bit biased.
I used this kind of interface daily for work. But I don't feel that you will make mistakes zooming out too far.
It's like Forged Alliance right now with the strategic zoom.

Do you ever zoom out too far in that?
So what if you do? Just mouse wheel forward a little again.
You probably overshoot all the time and never notice.

I feel you should have access to your entire production arm all the time.
I'm still compiling the community suggestions so I haven't put too much work into fleshing this out yet.
But this is what I've got.



It will essentially be that Homeworld manager.
It can float and be dragged around and moved to wherever you want on the screen.
If you want a view with celestial view, it should be up to you.

Has it been confirmed that we are to get a new UI at all?

It was mentioned in chat that UI is getting an overhaul.

Neutrino dropped into the true celestial view thread here:
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/...draw-from-ozonexs-pa.52806/page-2#post-806646


And he mentions some of the things on the requested list.
https://forums.uberent.com/threads/uber-do-you-agree-pa-needs-a-huge-ui-update.52662/#post-803454

"Yes the UI and a lot of other things need a ton of work. I do want to caution that if you are expecting a UI that utterly destroys games that had a multiple of our budget that your expectations are out of whack."
That statement has a bit worried?


I think PA is more complex. Not just on multiple battlefields (planets and moons).
But it's also spherical.
PA is also supposed to be bigger. He's said more than once "1 million units".

If PA can't at least get close to FA in terms of UI, it's going to be a chore to play.
But hey. I'm not a game designer. Him and the team at Uber are the actual life long pros.
I just play the damn things.

So I'll sit and wait and just keep compiling your requests.

Thats a rather big concern for me.
I dont like games where you have to micro just because the ui and game doesnt allow automatism that caters for 95% of the common actions - Be it because lack of funds/time or concerns of pleasing some esport-crowd.
If controls wont be even on Supcom Level, why care about planets... fix UI first, and then expand later.
December isn`t far of and Id like to have a game that does some basic stuff right, no multiple factions where the right decision, but multiple planets if you cant barely manage a single one.... (guess getting offtopic here)

For me the primary concern would be a 2D minimap, it shouldn`t even cover the whole planet (but a configurable, and possibly quite large portion) since the countless problems such projections would have. Just add another map if you need it.

Further I have real trouble keeping track of whos where on planets. There should be "player paint", meaning coloring the areas with the color of the units/structures that you last spotted. There are multiple things to do at all time and you cant spend the whole time watching your scouts, means currently you only see scouted structures afterwards (and really need to zoom in to conclude anything). This would be an option for any view, inclusive minimaps.
Units you scouted and are kept within radar range should have the right icons instead of anonymous blips.

I also do not use the viewcube. Because of this.
PA doesn't have that. So: viewcube for orientation = good idea

I like the cube cause I can do perfect orthographic turns.

Yep. The grid, totally necessary for me.
That and I also put on Latitude, Longitude and painted the equator red
I'd rather have these for than the cube...





But we don't have those in game...
And I didn't really want to ask for things which might get in the way of the "art vision".
The art team is people too