Uber devs and balancing.

Satisfying your desire for expansion is not my goal here Gunshin. It's my opinion that expand as fast as you can style is far too dominant a strategy to the point of exclusion of all others at this point.

Clopse, The changes that have been implemented so far are there purely to make the game functional. It's far from balanced and the Dev's are very aware of that. The small balance changes so far are not, as far as I am aware, indicative of the final direction of the game because such balance is practically impossible without a full unit list. Balance has been on a serious back-burner for a while now and Scathis has been pre-occupied with ToyRush.

Edit: Ninja Meta!

Flame Tanks :3 lol... But hey why Not

sure it would be nice if we were able to turtle, but uber has already stated its desire about no upgrades for anything. Besides, with a spherical planet, turtling is on the backfoot in anycase. Other than turtling, what other styles are there that do not take expansion as a primary focus of increasing income?

I would say teching, but nano might cut my hands off.

I don't understand why it's not easier to add units to a balanced game other than creating more work. Personally I can't wait for gunships but I know deep down they will be pointless until the t2 bomber gets balanced better. So basically it won't be used until game is balanced better so why add.

I am very aware of how games go. I don't make knee-jerk reactions to what happens to me. No, I don't think T1 Assault Bot rushes are overpowered. Don't worry about that.

Balance is a process. The first part is to get all the parts in. Thus the focus on the unit roster changes. There has to be a role for each unit and units that counter each role. That's the core of the strategy. After that is in, then we go through the process of balancing the economy and combat numbers. This takes time and iteration.

I can guarantee everyone here that when this big change goes out it won't be perfectly balanced. And that's ok. That'why we go through this process. We'll take the feedback we get from internal play tests, stat collecting, external partners, and you, the community and make changes as needed.

In the next few weeks be prepared to have the balance be very fluid.

Teching is perfectly acceptable a term as long as it doesn't lead to tiers. As long as the second 'tech' you gain access to changes your play-style, rather than just adding a zero to the end of all the numbers, then attempting to 'tech' is a perfectly noble goal.

Play-style you say?

Hummmmmmm, how could we change their play-style?

Could could make them into a kind of fortified outpost? Allowing players to better hold onto specific metal extractors?

And the latest playtest seems to exemplify that. Remember Meta getting his second base on the home planet blitzed by bots from Brad? He had Levelers and Shellers standing by. In the live build, the bots would have been massacred, but they just swarmed and slowly chewed through them.

Maybe that wasnt the best example.....but still. T2 doesnt guarantee Victory against your opponent anymore, if they do not have it.
To quote Clu:

The game has changed.

And nano.....we need more units on the field.

Right on! But, there's no reason not to trust John. Also, he's been very clear and candid with his reasoning behind any change he makes. If you have a question, feel free to ask!

That was meta's second base and he had to literally start from zero. I, on the other hand, still had a base and around 500-700 bots. To put it in other RTS terms, this is like me steam-rolling an expansion Terran base with my main army.

...I was referring to the standing army he had. If i was in his position, and that was the live build, I would have microed the levelers and shellers away from the bots so they could chew thru their ranks from range. I dont think it would have worked in that build, however.

And for those who are interested:

RTS Games I've worked on:
Command & Conquer 3 - 2 early non-shipped versions
*Command & Conquer Generals: Zero Hour
*The Lord of the Rings: The Battle for Middle Earth
*Supreme Commander
Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance
Demigod
*Planetary Annihilation

I've also done:
*Monday Night Combat
*Super Monday Night Combat
Earth & Beyond
*Toy Rush

*: I was heavily involved in balance.

Frankly I enjoy the first two minutes of play. Specially 'cos up to that point usually no one unbolted me over, and I'm still alive. Also I know what to do. Panic usually arrives with the third minute.

So, in older builds T2 was pretty strong. We want T1 to stay somewhat relevant (or helpful) in even the late game. So, that's part of the reason why my insane swarm won.

The question is ' how relevant and in what way? '

Are we expecting the Basic and Advanced split that's been talked about at length on the forums (though only briefly mentioned in a livestream or two) or is it tier defined like SupCom, but with less of a gap between the two power levels? A mix of the two like TA?

Specifically, I'm interested in the general idea behind Advanced units, and any unifying feature they would all share that would make them play differently to Basic units. That goes for all unit types, including economic buildings and defensive towers.

And I LIKE IT

That's what scares me.

*raises hand*

I would also like to be enlightened

Sorry if my posts seem like personal attacks. Just frustrating that the game seems to be taking steps back everytime new things are added. At the minute 99% of the ladder games go the same way;

Expand as quick as you can, using ants and pds to protect and harass expansions. Then go t2 bombers and t1 fighters and snipe the commander. The main reason this works so well is that 1 t2 bomber is amazing at killing any blob that is big enough to do damage. A really simple solution ( I have no idea) is to not allow bombers to hit moving targets. That way moving blobs are safe from easy death and easy com snipes are a thing of the past. Also gunships have a purpose then.

I think you're my hero now...

Aside from that simply being a list of my favorite RTS games, I modded Zero Hour for several years (Remix: Escalation it's on ModDB). The game had fantastic air combat that I'd like to see come back around someday. Supreme commander tried to use a similar rearm/refuel system, but fuel didn't work out nearly as well as ammo. Otherwise I liked the air staging system for carriers and airfields. Unlimited aircraft but you still needed to be keep your logistics in mind.

While I have the utmost confidence with your work going forward, you've made all my favorites, I also hope that you're not the least bit above stealing old ideas that worked well. Every one of these games had a game mechanic or two that was simply exceptional and some of them have never been recaptured nearly as well by newer games.