Tutorial

We'll see about the tutorial. That's kind of like icing on the cake.

I think I might end up creating a noob-guide for 1v1 as soon as a general idea exists on how to play 1v1.
Just to make sure enough people pick up 1v1.

I don't think Uber can create a proper tutorial that covers things beyond "select units like this and move them by clicking right somewhere" before launch, since such things are heavily depending on the meta-game. And that will take time to develop.

One requires you to be able to play with specific objectives, the other can also be done with a bunch of youtube videos. Your idea of a tutorial is pretty specific, but that's not a requirement.

Exactly, Über needs to focus on teaching the Mechanics, how to use Stratzoom, basic order queueing, This is a Factory ect ect and leave thing like tactics/strategies, unit comps and such up to the community, frankly so long as end of Beta and Release version aren't drastically different there will already be a slew of community stuff kicking around to boot.

Mike

I would rather just an awesome voice telling me what I should do. Rather than campaigns and tutorials.

To be honest I mentioned an idea for a tutorial that would (appear) to be quite easy to create waaaaay back when in the general discussion boards. It went something like this:

A series of small missions that slowly build the player up step by step. The beauty of which allows minimum development time from the team due to utilizing the procedural map generator for the maps (why not since it's there anyway?) and simply using a predetermined set of parameters to generate them.

Following that all that needs to be done is define the units that are available to the player and his cpu opponent for the purpose of training.

The first couple will need some scripting such as menu indicators and instructions to assist players in locating items in the menu and placing them on the map, but once the basic base building is done it will just be down to the player to learn how to manage the available units to achieve the goal. More detail see below:

1. Commander management and initial base building (& simple economy)
2. Building units and unit management (destruction of stationary targets)
3. First combat against easy cpu on small map (selected T1 only & no orbital)
4 - 10. Increasingly complicated battles, incrementally unlocking additional units and posing them against opponents using techniques they will need to use particular techniques to beat. Climaxing with all T1 unlocked requiring the player to practice what they have learned to beat a tough opponent.
After introducing all the T1 units, the T2 specialist units are unlocked one by one and the player is introduced to them the same way as with the T1 units. Opponents will be tougher than with the T1 tutorial but still won't have access to the orbital stuff just yet.
11. Finally orbital is introduced an the player colonizes their first moon. In the second stage of the mission, orbital units will be used to beat an entrenched enemy that will be extremely difficult to beat without the use of these units. They will also learn what surface-to-orbital defenses to avoid with their orbital units that must be destroyed with surface units. Thus teaching the player how to effectively co-ordinate their forces.
12. Orbital layer combat is introduced. The player is taught how to attack and defend on the orbital layer.
13. Finally, a full scale battle with the player and his cpu adversary starting on two separate moons orbiting the same planet. Everything is unlocked together for the first time and the player has full control over how they decide to engage the enemy.

It is possible that the difficulty of the tutorial campaign could be tailored by the player so that they could dictate how challenging the tutorial is, ergo allowing them to learn at their own pace. The beauty of this idea is that (providing the AI is capable) all that is required is to set the parameters for the map and unit availability and the game will pretty much do the rest on it's own save for highlighting and describing new units to the player and maybe suggesting possible tactics, uses for the unit.

If you need a tutorial for that, it's probably a new brain that you need, not a tutorial
Well, I think you couldn't even launch PA if you don't know that the scroll wheel is to scroll. It's basic computer knowledge that a 5 year old already have. (really, it's frightening, already saw a 3 year old with an ipad or a smartphone ?)

Seriously, do we REALLY need a "press forward to move forward - Right click to aim, left to fire" FPS-type stupid tutorial ?

The challenge maps on starcraft 2 are awesome. They let you discover some advance techniques by yourself in a "safe" environment.
They learn you some counters, some basic defense mechanism, .. But nothing too specific that rely much on balance. They have a specific goal, with a some defined parameters so you can't lose yourself in another topic that the challenge does not cover.
They can even be fun and challenging on advance mode.

That's how any RTS "tutorial" should be made. Not the "build mex to produce mass" nonsense that supcom has (who actually learn eco with that ? Who actually learned anything they couldn't figure by watching the screen 5 seconds and trying some clicks ?)

PA needs to adapt to its audience. It's not aiming the guy that never seen a RTS, even from far away. Right clicking for giving order, queue units, ... are standard things established since Dune 2000 and/or command and conquer for RTS.
Really, it would be like explaining that left-click is used to fire in Arma or that the stick move your character in Street Fighter 4.

I disagree here. While most people will already know such things they are still important for total newbies. A long time ago I was told to right click to attack in a tutorial of Empire Earth. I really was glad that the game had that tutorial. xD

An explanation of the basic controls is something that any game should provide. No matter how trivial they may be. There are people who are not as much into these games as we are and who will need such explanations.

They work great to explain hardcore micro-techniques that many players might miss otherwise. But I don't see PA having that kind of micro-mechanics.
But yeah, for SC2 they work great. Took a few hours to beat SC2 Masters, and was quite a lot of fun.

I was thinking of making some of them for FAF. It can work great for these kind of game too.
Get as much as units as possible before an attack wave come in, learn how to use your commander (and commander upgrades), learn some basic natural counters (flak vs gunship, arty vs stationnary defense,..),...
You can implement a "right click to ..." in these at the beginner level

Unlike a classic tutorial, you can get a grasp at what is possible. If you can't succeed the challenge, it's because you are missing something, unlike a tutorial where you can't miss anything, but not learn much.

Ie. I did the tutorial of supcom. Still, I was stalling hard on my first game because of lack of reclaim. It's not that nothing explain that, it's just that you can't realize how important this is if you don't have a fixed level to reach.

If you can't defeat the wave, it's because you don't have enough units. So you know it's possible -and normal- to have way more than you can currently make. Because you are in the parameters of a challenge tailored for it (and not an human or an AI). And so you've learned an important lesson for multiplayer.

Brick wall learning curve? You mean turtling... never got out of that habit, can't wait for PA so I can finally get myself out of that rut.

During the beta, smart members of the community should make the tutorial. Leave Uber to the building of the game.

Indeed

There are smart people here?!

Strategically smart ones...

I see wat u did thar...

As ive said so many times before. Simpler is always better.


And in the great minds of strategist, the simpler the order is. The more it gives the guys on the ground.

KISS - Keep it simple stupid. I vote for that dude with shirt trauma to make spooky, "Open the Menu, by Pressing H, Or be annihilated"

I think that simplicity can be good or bad...

Well? Which is it then!

By smart people, I meant; those that can distil all the important concepts down into something understandable to a ten year-old.

Well... I'm stuck in the turtling rut, I won't be of any help with that. At least I enjoyed the campaign.

I'm with OP. Traditional tutorials are boring as **** and I never finish them. I just want to play the game goddamnit! Learning at my own pace, not waiting for some mouth breather to tell me things I already know. What is this high shool?? :lol:

I'd much rather have a "tutorial hints on" toggle for skirmish or Galactic War. Don't hold the player up, teach them as they play the game itself.