Total Biscuit

It took me up to the beta stage to realize that the units in the game were not placeholders for more advanced designs.

Mavor himself did mistake T2 Tanks as T1 Tanks in a livestream. That says it all.

You've actually hit on the main problem uber ran into quite nicely... Your examples of differentiation all revolve around weapon types, however new weapons are by far the hardest thing to implement in pa due to the spherical maps. That is why all artillery is high arc.... Direct fire artillery (ie big bertha) would simply hit the planet.

Any kind of long range beam canon has the same issue too. Dumb fire rockets (like used on storms) would work ok assuming their fairly short range, however direct fire of any kind that is longer ranged simply isn't an option.

I think the devs discovered this during early development (there were discussions with them at the time) and that forced their hand a bit.

I personally don't think the unit roster is so bad in pa. Ta had very similar units in different tiers (raider -> reaper anyone?) The main difference is ta had more combat units overall. I think if pa needs anything, it's a few more mobile units adding to its roster. A hover tank would be a nice addition, especially if it could traverse lava as that would differentiate it from other amphibious units...

So basically there is only 1 direct upgrade unit in the game as far as I can see (the t2 tank). I think we can forgive uber that one imo....

Vanguards are unique, shellers unique, slammers are visually and functionally different to dox, gil-e unique... Same applies to the rest of t2.

I think a few more mobile units would be a good idea but this direct upgrades bandwagon isn't really applicable now imo.

Yeah, I noticed that. I think the arc is a bit.. too high, but just as units have the mechanical capability to fire in arcs, they should be able to differentiate between planet sizes and aim accordingly to what gets the shell there the fastest. The Guardian turrets from TA come to mind (they had a bit of leverage with terrain). That may be a hell of a code to write, but that would immediately solve quite a few problems. Artillery could use the code to aim around the planet curvature, and tanks could as well when the size is really tiny. Dumbfire rockets wouldn't be able to fire straight forward, they'd need to have some type of code for.. I guess what could be seen as 'gravity' in PA. It would make missiles eventually hit land and at that point, you could arc rockets over large distances well over the horizon on small planets.

Lasers are the only drawback as they don't really, you know, curve with the planet like shells or rockets can. I don't actually know how to solve this. I've never seen a long ranged laser platform other than like.. the Annihilator from TA though, (god damn I loved that thing), which would have difficulty on smaller planets, but excel highly on larger ones. Perhaps this could be seen as good, because that kind of weapon would be pretty broken on a small enough map.

That's a good example of two tanks that just.. aren't that much different. Hover would be a good addition as well. I know there's way more to unit personality than just weapons, but it's always a good place to start. Many units are built around what kind of weapon they have and that defines what they're good at. A slow-firing alpha damage weapon on a fast vehicle would be great at taking out heavy and/or important targets. A group of them may not have a lot of life collectively, but they would easily make a hole in your walls and turrets for a heavier ground force. It could be dumbfire and become anti-building, or tracking and be a great bomber deterrent.

So many things you can do with just two weapon types and one chassis.. I can't imagine the possibilities when you start looking at tanks of all speeds, spiderbots, mechs, tank bodies with mech torsos, hovers, aircraft, naval in it's entirety.. I'm sad there's so little of this kind of thought put into the units in the game. The community has come up with great ideas, and a lot of them. Granted, not all are good, but there's more than enough ideas where simply a fraction of the list will add some major personality to this game. I absolutely love the pure astronomical-level of potential that this topic has, I'm just so utterly disappointed when I just.. don't see it.

The thing that strictly speaking yes, it is more work to create a great unit than it does to create a Stereotypical one. What a lot of people don't realize is that if you do things right it's not actually that much work. All it takes is some forward thinking and vision. Sure sometimes the first attempt isn't the greatest, it happens. I ended up making 3 Versions of the same tank before we ended up with a design that looked good and had just the right mechanics to excel in the game.

I mean, how much more effort could it have really taking to make the Leveler into a Tank Hunter with a Hull Mounted Cannon compared to just making a Generic Advanced Ant?

The reason it's a lot more work no to REDO things is because the effort wasn't put in in the first place, if it had things probably wouldn't have been so dire at this stage.

Well of course Direct Fire doesn't work at long ranges, but that's not what Artillery should be using, Artillery should be a mix of Low and High Arc Artillery.

Beams can work. While they are hindered on being super long ranged because of planet curvature there is no reason they couldn't make a Cybran Rhino type unit that's zippy, somewhat thin-hulled and armed with a short range beam turret. And it's not like you're strictly limited to that either, when it comes to maximizing a Beams range the best thing you can do is put it high. Imagine a big pyramid of a tank with a Beam weapon right at the top, the extra height can help it get more range. Beams have limits sure, but they aren't unworkable either.

Missiles/Rockets are the weapon broad weapon type that has a LOT of room for variety actually and it's sad that it isn't being fully capitalized on in PA. So far all with have are the same old boring "Accurate Tracking" type. It's boring because it usually ends up being very binary, either the target is fast enough to outrun it or agile enough to get inside it or it gets hit. This is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to missiles. We gave the Basilisk Siege missiles that it fired 20 at a time, but because I made sure none of the Muzzles were lined up with each other they shoot out in a huge fan and because we turned town their turn speed and included a swerve to off set the tracking they can still easily miss a specific target but do fantastically against a base or shield. You can even make true "dumb fire" rockets by just making them act like a ballistic weapon, it's what we did on the Hailfire and the Squall. Or what about the Goliath's Missiles, those initially take off with looking like they're terrible, they're slow and barely turn, but then after a certain point they make a quick course correction and kick in the after burners, coming straight down very hard and very, very fast.

These weapon types are workable in PA, some might need a bit more sideways thinking than others(Beams) but they are still very workable.

Mike

Actually with the leveler's terrible turret turn Rate it acts a bit different than the ant. I'd probably go to say that the t2 not is the real direct upgrade to the dox.