Tofu: A bacon substitue for those who can't

Sorry, I should have mentioned that this game mode doesn't USE custom classes for very obvious reasons.

I fundamentally disagree. Shaveices debuff people's movement, as does the gunner slam, the tank charge fully removes their movement for an appropriate duaration or geographic location. Debuffing works just fine providing it is balanced as is true with buffing.

People do not quit because they are trapped in a shave ice's radius of influence or are stunned by a gunner. Providing the debuff is appropriate people will remain in the game.

If good players utterly dominate new ones then many of the new players will not continue playing MNC. While skillful play should be rewarded, game features that moderately (not fully) reduce the gulf in performance between new and experienced players have their place - I think

But those mentioned examples are skills or things that occur within very specific parameters. Shaveice debuffs speed when you're within it's range (which is extended by hack). Gunner slam stuns you because you were in range and on the ground. Tank charge stuns completely because you were nearby.

How can the people here against your idea agree with having your options being removed simply because someone stumbled upon an item which works whether or not you were in range or not. You provided examples of specific skills but we're discussing how to balance a pick up.

This right here lol, you cant argue endorsements and then only use speed as a prime example. The speed endorsement is one of the lesser used one on players anyhow.
Shaveice is a debuff, however it is visible, can be destroyed pretty easily. Skills that slow are on large classes with slower movement speeds. Gunner deploy will slow you down sure, but the gunner is deployed and immobilized. Tank can stun, but is no where near that fast, and your more likely to ring out.
Endorsements are a lot lot lot of things in the game. Rate of Fire, Speed, Juice, Ammo size, reload speed, armor, health regen, skill regen, etc.... These are all valuable parts of a character thats built to play a certain way.
Take them away and that class becomes broken.
If your whole idea is to help new players be competitive against better more skillful players an item drop is far from the route to take.

This game has a high learning curve. A learning curve is the amount of time it takes to pick up on game features to learn your "skills". Some games have really really low learning curves, Pong, PacMan, Call of Duty. Then there are games that require you to use more of your brain to incorporate in the play style, HALO, Monday Night Combat. People are going to have to learn to play like everyone else did.

This isnt call of duty, that game makes sucky players good with care packages. You dont have to be amazing at the game, but if you can get a few kills in a row by camping youll have a chance. Monday Night Combat, you have to learn to build your customs, use the skills you chose, and most importantly master a class at a time to learn how the game plays out.
Assassin>Gunner, Tank>Assassin, PitGirl>Bullseye.....get what im saying?

There is a difference between skills and random item drops. However, bacon is also a random item drop.

Also note:

that would be even worse. kill streaks would fuel that.

Juice follows this philosophy, however like bacon it only benefits the purchaser, whereas this would aid weak players on the winning team, albeit weak players on the receiving team would still suffer. The situation is less weighted against weak players than the situation for juice.

I still stand by both methods of implementing debuffs. At worst I do not see them alienating new players any more than bacon/juice, at best they offer a more inclusive game for new players and still urge increased competition between experienced players.

I like your comparison to Halo. Despite me not liking Halo, it is. Being good in that game means knowing where the weapon spawns are and using them to your full advantage. You pick up the rocket launcher, get kills, drop it, and know it's X seconds until it respawns.

In Call of Duty, even if you're bad at the game, if you manage three kills you can level the playing field a bit with UAV. And the killstreaks snowball from there.

In Monday Night Combat, you have 6 classes with clearly defined roles. Maybe we're being elitist. Maybe I'm being elitist. Go ahead and call me elitist. But if you're asking for a bone to be thrown to new players, I say use tough love. This game is rewarding when you learn how this game works or at least learn how your favorite class works.

If you hate the high learning curve, then I'm truly sorry we lost a potential buyer and a potential comrade. But I like the game because good players truly stand apart in the crowd and that it doesn't do anything to comfort trite mediocrity.

Thats it bud, you said it to the fullest. The game isnt appealing to new players, or experienced players. What the game appeals to is the common player, the every day joe who jumps on the play an hour here and there.
New Players no matter what the game in will never have super high success and be able to dominate. The game is about team work, and knowing how to use and abuse the class you are on.
New players are important to worry about, however to say the problem is more experienced players its not. Its the fact that people have been playing for a long time and with a growing community there are more new players lately than experienced. Its time to either learn or lose and thats what it really comes down too. If your a sniper walking around with Juice, Speed, Reload then you might want to rethink your class.

Bribing sponsers/tofu/removing endorsements is not a good route like ive been saying. The game doesnt want to debuff you, a debuff can only be used on a defense play, Shaveice was the prime example of the #1 debuff in the game. Your speed, a slowed player is easier to kill no matter how good.

The point i keep trying to get by, is by assisting New Players with an item, your really hurting them. The game will not determine who is new, who is bad, who can get 40 kills. Just cause your rank 1 doesnt mean you never played. A team who has the better advantage on the field is more likely to get any tofu drop/bribe to affect other players on the other team, and i promise you no item is going to have magic appearing spawns in your base to prevent it from being used by another team. Really its time to rethink the idea, or drop it to be honest, not trying to be mean its just how it works.

Huh, I guess stupidity doesn't work as satire as well as I though it would. My post was supposed to be a stupid idea that gets everybody to realize how dumb almost every idea has been posted in this this thread has been.

Take your insults elsewhere, whether they're blunt as now or subtle as previously - see forum rules.

I must confess this general idea had crossed my mind. I did not have you or any individual in mind. I did not mention it as it is a sure way to risk upsetting people, however since you have initiated the point: I am aware that I am writing on a forum that disproportionately represents the more experienced players of a game. Stating that the game should be weighted (slightly) towards less experienced players is not likely to be well received.

Debuffing can very easily be used offensively, that statement isn't true. When moneyballs go down bots spawn at half health, that enables offensive play. Shaveice's are static, but even they can still help you offensively by allowing you to take map control.

Saint Mudknot and StriderHoang you seem to be of a similar opinion. It reads to me as: "do not help the weak they must help themselves. If they don't then let them leave." if my paraphrase misrepresents you then please just state it so. While offering excessive help would indeed not help them or anybody, I think that giving people a small hand is appropriate at times. But, on this point I don't think we will reach agreement.

Just face it mate, no one wants to hear your thoughts or opinions unless they are the same as theirs, too many skilled players on here that would be unable to cope with such an idea.

This will never happen/work.

Why all the talk about it?

:?

Monday night combat wishlist?

My apologies then.

thats about the basis of every post you have made so far.

Nobody makes you read them tom, if you dont like it then why read every one of my threads? I will debate with people based on my experience playing the game that is all.

Tip, dont read my threads in future as you clearly dont like them but seem to comment in nearly all??

I believe we are at risk of drifting off topic...although as it happens I think I've said the majority of what I can that's relevant. This has gotten somewhat more philosophical than I initially anticipated - probably my fault.

Alright, fine. Call of Duty is just a touchy subject for me because of the topic of skill equalizing but ok. This is the wishlist board.

For the sake of argument, let's say I agree with the idea of debuffing the enemy team. Still, I find it hard to swallow that it has to be a pickup that you pickup and it affects the other team.

Forgive my lack of experience but I can't think of a precedent of picking up an item in a game with such a competitive edge that affects the opposite team negatively.

In typing that out, I have thought of the lightning bolt from Mario Kart, which shrinks every other kart racer in the game. An entirely different game but at least I've thought of a precedent.

Come to think of it, the annihilator is basically a debuffing machine (hurts everyone slightly and destroys all enemy bots, that's one helluva debuff in a way) and you've already brought up tofu machine. The difference being that the annihilator comes up every 3 minutes. Let's think about that.

I too have many issues with call of duty. I do not like the way it unofficially endorses players abusing seeming exploits: quick scoping, tubing people from the outset of a S&D level - I won't start ranting about it.

Mario kart is a good observation. I can think of many examples from games of a very different formats, however your example is, as you say, a case of one player picking up an item that affects the others.

The time between annihilator uses is long and for a good reason, I would not want to see massive amounts of debuffing.

I know the idea has not met much love, but I still think that if ideas following this thinking are implemented well (it doesn't have to be a random pickup if a better approach can be determined) they will ensure expert vs expert matches remain competitive, that good players can still on average beat poor ones and that poor ones receive a little more gratification than they do at present.