To all of those who encourage wins as quick as possible:

Response:

-More players =/= better community. I'll take fewer players who are willing to learn over more players who want the dev to change the game to cater to their needs.

-Players also quit playing because they are tired of being stomped in 1:30.

The question isn't flawed, but my answer still stands.

Even I would go for the all time great.

I see your point. Because big playerbases also attract more "l33t" type players. Which means you get to run across the real gems of internet gaming. And oftentimes, smaller communities are more helpful and close because the good ones have stuck around and the bad ones have been weeded out.

But it is also true that:
Less players = less variety in competition = less fun for those interested in competitive games.
and
More players = more money for Uber = higher chance of MNC 2.

So are you really saying you don't want more people in the community of MNC?

Yep. They do. They leave your lobby. Why? Because they aren't giving you the competition you need and you are too good for them. Most people who quit out after being beaten really quickly do so to find a room that they can have fun and be competitive. The key is that the majority don't stop playing the game in general from losing to a team who is just better than them.

However, I also think that people do stop playing the game outright and move on to another game when they continuously play people who do not play the game as intended. I've seen plenty of people stop playing this game due to it. In fact, PA, another forum I am always on, was initially VERY excited about this game and had a list of about 50+ people playing. First, glitching turned alot of people off of it. But that got fixed so many tried to come back. Then the posts are all about how whenever they get on they are relegated to either waiting in their spawn for 10 minutes while the other team farms kills, or dying over and over again due to always having an enemy juiced in their spawn. Now the thread is dead and hardly anyone on there plays anymore.

People want to play this game because of its unique objective, class-based atmosphere. When a curious demo-player or person returning from not playing for a while, jumps in a game and gets Team DM'd for 10 minutes in their spawn, they will probably quit and go play a proper team DM game like CoD or Halo.

So in short, yeah people quit for both reasons. But people are driven away from the game, from spawn-camping. I wouldn't say that's the case from just getting beat legitly and quickly.

I find the number of people who would go for a silly protag odd. I myself go for the objective, aka finish the enemy's moneyball and/or wipe out a horde of bots.

Why? Because I'm objective oriented and don't give a damn about PvP when the PvE is a massive threat. Maybe this is why I also don't care about buying myself Juice, I see no point to it when I can earn it from taking out bots and turrets.

I also relish a challenge and love going against opponents that are better than me, since it helps me find flaws in my own playstyle and improve my tactics. Even when it's 1v6 I still attempt to get things done, even if it's futile.

So, assuming you already have the "All-time Great" tag, then what you are saying is that non-new tag gain > winning. Because the second scenario (set of quotes) sounds like no tag gain chance = care more about your moneyball.

Now here is where it gets scary. If tag gain, aka in game achievements, are more important than winning, then what happens when people can All-Star? Surely new All-Star rank > non-new tag gain, right? Because of this money gain is now directly tied to a never-ending game achievement (more so than it already is) that is more important than any non-new tag.

So we've established:

• 1) money gain = new All-Star rank
  2) new All-Star rank >= non-new tag gain
  3) your (and many people in this thread's) attitude is that non-new tag gain > winning

therefore soon money gain > winning to many people in this forum.

So why EVER shoot the ball when you can farm kills for money to get the next All-Star opportunity? And why even have moneyballs? Why not just turn this into a Team DM game and call it what it is to many regular players in the community: Slayer?

Not that this will ever happen, but remove the K/D ratio. Remove the reporting of Kills Deaths and Assists from anything other than the private reports that come up after game, and you will remove the incentive to play deathmatch, and restore the incentive to win. In fact, swap them out for Bot kills, Turret kills, and damage done to the Moneyball, and it will ensure people playing for THOSE objectives. The resulting emphasis will still result in pro killing, but as a part of those objectives, not a separate thing.

And yes, like I said, it will never happen... but a man can dream.

I don't even think its the K/D stat that is a problem. I think its what the game rewards you for that is a problem.

There are more rewards (tags, money, soon to be All-Star) for killing opposing players than there is for going for the objectives. That is the fundamental problem and it is evidenced in this thread by people who care more about tags than winning.

I think it is incorrect to assume that winning is and should be the top priority in every single game a person ever plays.

Fun is > Winning usually for me, but I'll take both when I can.

All time greats are rare and memorable. Memorable wins are few and far between.

The bolded statement is awesome and I agree.

But does "Fun", to you, mean

• 1) Do whatever it takes for it to be fun for you, even if it is at other's expense (spawn-camping)?
  2) Do whatever it takes for the greatest number of people to have fun (aka do you care about the "fun" of the community as a whole)?

It means that people will always put there fun above others fun. Which is why the game design needs to change in this case.

I disagree. I don't even remember how I got my only All Time Great. What are memorable are crazy situations that can arise through normal play. For example, the other day as a Sniper I hit the Annihilator at the same time an enemy Assassin went for it. I promptly used my grapple skill, bounced the Assassin off a glass wall, and watched them get fried by the Annihilator in midair.

Did I get a ProTag (other than Annihilator highlight) for that memorable situation? No, but I did get some laughs out of it.

Just to clarify, I don't think people should sacrifice their enjoyment to make sure others have fun. That would be ridiculous. Its entertainment after all.

BUT, having fun by playing in such a way that it actively prevents others from having fun, when there is a way to have fun and not actively prevent others from having fun is selfish. That's what the clarification in the previous post was asking for.

For example, I don't think people should give up their perfect seat in a movie theater for someone who got there late. BUT, when in a movie theater, don't chat with your friends out loud about what is happening just because that's what you consider fun to do in a movie.

If there is a chance for me to get an All-Time Great, I will ALWAYS go for it, no matter the risk. Every single time. There is no situation that you could suggest that would make me change my mind.

I wasn't trying to change your mind. I was just using your posts as premises for my logical conclusion that if non-new tag gain > winning, then we might as well get rid of the moneyball and play Slayer.

And if you are responding directly to my previous post I made in response to yours, then it seems like you don't have a counter-argument against the logic I made regarding the problem with the attitude of putting non-new tag gain over winning.

This question is somewhat flawed. The fact that the Pros are weakened and I have juice proves it. I would slay everything in sight stop the bots and kill the weakened Pros all simply because I have juice. Just to clarify I am playing as a Tank and without Juice I can kill 6 Blackjacks with one full clip Death Blossom.

Now on to reading the rest of this thread...

Having the perfect setup to get an All-Time Great comes maybe once every fifty games (and even that is pushing it), which is why when the opprotunity presents itself, I take it. I guess if winning is what is most important to you, go for it. It's just another win for you.

I would agree that it is somewhat flawed because I am implying some things. Mainly:

Weakened pros means they will be scattering to safety to regain health. The opportunity to kill them before they scatter is a small window, just as small of a window as killing the bots that are on the verge of jumping on your ball. So both are not possible.

I have joined rooms solo and as soon as the moneyball drops people quit out. No matter who's on my team or not as the game starts I am going to push one of my lanes straight to their base. After all that is the objective.

If that the case I will go after the bots but save my juice for the Pros.

How do you win? More importantly, how do you get to their base. I have honestly never jumped into the enemies moneyball area :cry:

Yes, 8 minutes is a fair time. I like my games to go about that long (about 10)