There needs to be more anti tank options

A separate gunship factory sounds potentially very interesting, although it would be pretty odd if all it built was the gunship unit, so I guess you'd have to think of a couple more for it to build.

How is this any harder than designing more than one Tank unit?

Heck, I've already designed 2;



And there is plenty more options where those came from!

Mike

That was what MadSci was suggesting. There could be many variations of gunships

EDIT: As posted literally seconds before me

What if the gunship factory and the fixed wing factory produced different kinds of transports as well? Fixed wing would create low-storage, high-speed transports good at getting fabbers and raiding parties behind enemy lines, while the gunship-like transports would have high storage capacity and low speed, great for ferrying armies over impasses and hot-drops.

Does Uber have the time and the money to experiment with such ideas is the real question.

Oh stop being a worry-wort and let us dream.

Dream away. I won't stop you there.

... or will I?

The real real question is "Is there a better way that the money required for this feature could be spent?". It is sensible to think of these things as an opportunity cost relative to other potential features. For example if it was a case of gunships vs orbital, just hand me the missile launcher, and i'll shoot those gunships down myself. However if it's gunships vs optional photo-realism texture pack, then i would wager that gunship development would be a better investment of uber's resources than brown-grey grittiness. It all boils down to the potential benefits, for the potential required work.

However, using placeholders, i don't think it would be too difficult to do simple tests. Duplicate some regular planes and air factories, slap on some different colours and scalings, then tweak their speed/health/firepower settings in the relevant JSON files. Run a few internal games, and see if theres anything there worth taking forward. I'm pretty sure that all the physics and unit motion systems are already in place (or soon will be), so I reckon it would actually be a fairly cheap proposition to see if there's any merit in this kind of idea. In fact, i would personally rather see dedicated gunships than shields or experimentals, which i expect would take substantially more work to implement and test.

Of course, ultimately, this is uber's decision. They are the ones with the experience in terms of understanding the relationship between effort-in and gameplay-out. Thats why I only really think in terms of implementation cost as a limiter if it's pretty obvious that theres not a cat in hells chance that uber could deliver a suggested feature with the funds they have. For example, fully scripted single player campaigns. I would wager good money that Uber have already done a few quick and dirty experiments with possible features, which have influenced how the game is today. I would be a happy man if gunships could be one for the future.

Good to know about the Gunship thing.
They are interesting in my opinion, and even if something like them would not be in the game, modders will bring them^^

I see that as merely a change in wording. My meaning is identical to yours.

no apparently they have the time and money for nothing more then they have already done. there. 51531 is your final build, stop hoping for new updates.

Stop hoping heathens!

So even if PA doesn't have gunships, I do hope the engine will support everything needed for modders to put them in.

I actually rather like gunships. There are good ground attack raiders and are easily countered by proper use of flack and/or interceptors.

If anything bombers just weren't powerful enough to provide a viable alternative imo.

The classic tank's weakness is meant to be limited range and mobility. The latter mechanic is barely fleshed out yet, so it's WAY too premature to be blaming bombers.

You can't expect a first strike, target choosing unit to be capable of demolishing the highest endurance units in the game. It doesn't take a huge leap of logic to figure out why.

Eh, gunships always were the boring unit. They ignore all terrain, treating a planet like a flat plane.

Its not to say that we shouldn't have some gunships in some specialised roles but having them as main combat units like tanks and bots doesn't make for good gameplay. Air in general isn't as interesting as ground due to it ignoring terrain, making air tanks (gunships always somehow end up as air tanks it seems...) is even worse.


Some anti-sub helo with depth charges, no problem. A ground attack gunship with less range then tanks and relying on mobility, sure. The brawler from TA? No thanks. (It was a fun unit but way op.)

All aircraft are like that.. ignoring terrain. That's the entire point of.. you know.. aircraft. I wouldn't consider that 'boring', though. More on this point ahead..

Flak says hi. It also eats your Brawlers for breakfast. ..and lunch. ..and dinner too. A group of 4 to 6 core flak cannons were a no-fly zone for brawlers. Even if you had more than a hundred.

Now, I'm debatable with gunships having less range than tanks. This is only because we would assume aircraft can cover the same spot others do.

If aircraft could not fly on the same spot that others do, similar to how tanks can't physically take the same space as another, you would get patrol routes of aircraft dodging and weaving through each other, doing barrel rolls, and looking wicked awesome. You would see construction aircraft NOT being the endgame choice to build basically any building in seconds with the staggering amount of build power they come with in large groups. You will see gunships becoming less of the unbelievable attack force they're feared to be. Bombers will come in squadrons instead of a group that only looks like one aircraft with a retardedly-extended wing.

If aircraft were unable to fly in the same spot that others do while giving them ability to fly close to each other using their full aerobatic maneuverability, not only will gunships not be nearly as overpowered as they're seen to be now, but ALL aerial encounters will be much cooler, much more entertaining to watch, and yes, much, much more awesome.

What does that have to do with the power level of gunships?

I'm fairly certain no one is against gunships because they are going to be inside each other, because they won't, that will be fixed. The problems they have with gunships would be the gunships in a finished state, not in some weird buggy alpha state.

So I guess that means Total Annihilation as well as Supreme Commander 1 and 2 are both in some weird buggy alpha state too, right? They too, have aircraft flying inside each other. They phase through each other like it's no big deal.

And granted it's not.

What I'm getting at is that people dislike that brawlers in TA, and gunships in general were broken because you could get so many attacking one thing that it would fall within seconds in comparison to dozens of strikes from fighter aircraft or bombers which may take several runs to destroy the same target.

If you remove the ability for aircraft to go inside of each other, and refuse them access to the same space, you can, by default, lower the amount of gunships you can have attacking one object.

Gunships are not a completely broken unit unless you have Flak that is lacking in power and/or ability. Flak cannons are designed to take out slow flying aircraft like bombers and gunships, and do so astonishingly well, I might add. They have a huge area of effect, and gunships are able to strafe missiles or direct fire, but they won't strafe nearly fast enough to avoid flak cannons.

What I would ask is that if gunships are so broken, why isn't your anti-gunship weapons, IE flak cannons, good enough to counter them?

Brawlers and gunships were broken because they had the health of a tank, the power of a tank, the speed of 3 tanks, and the price of 1. It's straight up bad math, and very basic math at that.

Solving bad math with more bad math doesn't help anything. If Supcom flak cannons pointed at the ground, they'd absolutely annihilate anything.

If any AA in SupCom pointed at the ground they'd annihilate everything. This is because an ASF has more health than a Titan, a trend which pervades all of SupCom,s air units.