The reason why PA bores me (feedback)

Torpedo Bombers: hell yes.
Anchor should not be able to deal damage to subs, and currently it cant (anchor should get a major overhaul in general)
SSX should be able to deal reduced damage (Area Damage)

Bots underwater are currently extremely weird.
Dox says, it has Anti Ground and Anti Ship guns - it is amphibious...and cant shoot ships...but it can shoot air units.
Slammer is fine in theory, but as you said, it doesnt make sense if a tank cant shoot back. Atleast let artillery, grenadiers and other splash units damage them (like it was possible in SupCom - just give the command to fire at a certain position and let the splash do the rest)

So yeah...both of the "uncommon" layers need work, underwater and orbital.

+1 to torp bombers.

As for amphibian bots, remember dox are *totally helpless* underwater so make a tasty target for subs / torps / frigates.

Slammers are your land to water unit- even TA had underwater bots so they're not as bad as all that. I personally think that they should stay as is, and add in hover-tanks because *that* is where vehicles are lacking.

On that note I also think there should be an option to build amphibian / hover units in the water as a way to attack a land locked area from the sea. Maybe add hover tanks into the t2 sea factory?

This smells like a "realism" argument, which serves no purpose in making the game actually better.

-1 to torpedo bombers.

Why have a specific type of airplane that just targets only boats and submarines? It's almost the same as a bomber, except that it can only fight on one plane. Sometimes this is necessary, but it should be reduced as much as possible.

Why shouldn't an SXX laser go through the water to kill a commander? That rewards you for parking your commander in the water, which would have drastic balance consequences for orbital.

The fact that Dox can go underwater is the critical link between the land plane and the water plane. Without this link, water and land become less intertwined.

If you design the game so that units designed for combat on land can only engage on land, and units designed for combat in the water can only engage in the water, then you just end up with two separate, disconnected theatres of war. It's the way they connect that makes the dynamics of the game more interesting.

Make normal bombers use torpedos on sea targets rather then carpet bombing the sea.

Let me the the waves burst as ships are poped!

I wasn't thinking outside of the box like you were when I said -1 to torpedo bombers.

This would both prevent us from having to build another bomber type, and make bombers more effective at attacking boats without getting killed. (Because they could fire torpedoes from far away).

I think the devs need to sit down and think about what they are going to bring to this game long term, and when they have decided when their aims are they need to let us know.

I can play this game for a few hours but quite often I'll finish a game that has taken 40 minutes, think back to what happened and then realise that NOTHING happened. The terrain should force you to battle individual armies rather than just swarm all of your units together. It should be possible for a small army to beat a big army in battle through using battle tactics. I like the way the game can have some back and forth but it's really a game that is easily won by having a strong economy and by amassing a large number of units.

Well it is mostly due to planet size that makes it easy to go onto a never ending attack with ze swarm.

And terrain does allow you to only face a part of a swarm, rather then the whole force at once, but that also means that the enemy won't stop arriving.

Also most battle tactics revolve around unit composition and intel, so generally you never fight with just one unit type and never unaware, think of tactics like in the battle of the bulge, rather then how the smaller tank outwitted the bigger tank.

Mass scale terrain will make positioning and execution the difference between meeting the enemy, and letting them into your metal fields.

I think the idea of supporting different projectiles would be the best solution to not clutter the factories with units that you need in only one scenario.
So giving regular bombers torps when attacking water based targets sounds like a good idea.

the only problem i have with Dox is its description.
took me a while until i figured out, why the "anti ship lasers" cant attack ships...and until recently i didnt know that he can attack air targets.

radar satalites are your mobile radar actualy ...
also realy how much utility can there be?

we have radar :sats and vanguards
we have anti missile defense
we have stealth even though for single units only at the moment
we have amphibius
we have medics
we have minelayers
we have combat engineers

so yea unitwise i like to disagree

imo there isn´t thaaat much more to be added actualy with maybe some "fun" or unconvetional units ( such as nukebots! ) ...
even OWO doesn´t add that much in unitypes

shields are a thing i personaly don´t want
as well as cloak ...

as for intresting planets ... this is simply a thing with optimising planetgeneration ...
and it simply is quite a big thing to do ...

it's not. not if you read it to the end.

personally, I dunno about you, but, smells like a "it's broken and OP" argument....

I'm in favor of gameplay. More-so gameplay that's been prooven functional and fun. and Even more so in the case where what i'm against has been prooven broken and un-fun.

If you read again torp bombers wasn't what my post was about, more what people picked up on.

I was talking about anphib units shouldn't exist at at all in the current state the game is in.

the unit roster is just to limited to allow it in a balanced and fun way.

right now our anphip units ar nor balanced nor fun. They're just the best unit, uncontested on a map with water.

So basically we're playing the game where the meta can be simplified to : build the best unit.

This is not fun. This is not interesting.

I'm tired of bots being so massively OP.

they serve a purpose that spans much wider than all the other units. You donnot have an equal timeframe to counter them in with other units. I think this is what some of you fail to realize. @cdrkf

the units that supposedly counter them donnot make a use of themselves across many battlefields as do the anphips so you lost if you invested in them instead of going down the same meta route as your opponent and trying to do so even harder.

I dunno why some of you are defending the broken state the game's in.

Sure you'll have to relearn a tad.

Small fee compared to being king of the cinder......

It would be nice if Uber took part in these discussions.. Some really good points are being made..

if you need an argument :
bombs also = depthcharges
hornet missiles also = torpedoes
i.e. semi intelligent ammo ....
because robots know (at least some) adaptability

What if the anchor could only shoot at orbital OR ground at any specific moment, and the shared turret had a fairly slow traversal between anti-orbital position and anti-ground position? Then it would be easier to take them out with coordinated attacks between Stingray / Bluehawks and Avengers

Tatsu, bots suck vs tanks. The only reasons to make them at all is there ok at raiding and are strong on water maps.

As I mention give vehicles a hover tank and then you have similar utility available on both platforms.

If we do what you suggest bots will simply be useless again.

play me on the ladder and I'll demonstrate clearly tanks are the stronger choice overall- I can play and win pa games on pretty much any map without bots, I cannot say the same for tanks. It sounds to me like you've not even played the current balance, or maybe you've just been playing against a bot fanatic?

If someone goes bots only and you survive the first pushes, you basically win the game. Bots are useless against tanks in the later stages of the game (as cdrkf said). T2 bots have some uses like the slammer being able to go underwater and being a good T1 counter, the sniper being really powerful when you have a critical mass. The bluehawk is great when you have to break an anchor turtle. But these roles are just niche roles, usually a T1 tank swarm will do what you want and finish the game before these bots come onto the battlefield. Try to defend an inferno-ant army with bots behind walls and then try it with tanks behind walls. Bots suck when you have to defend your base. Also, T2 tanks outclass bots. If you have a critical mass of shellers, you can just roll over everything (with some AA and some T1). Bots also don't have AA, so good luck against some bombers.

Bots are ok if you are aware that they usually have a supporting role, winning a game with bots alone is difficult (you really have to commit to it and know the strengths of the bots). Vehicles are the main forces.

You are however right, that the unit roster is too limited because it doesn't have that many fun units. The T2 ships are awesome, shellers are cool, snipers. But air doesn't really have cool stuff. Gunships maybe but nobody really uses T2 air, because T2 bot/vehicle/navi just offer more. If something needs polish in the unit roster, it is T2 air, make the T2 bomber stealth (like landmines). slower than the other air and let it drop a bomb that does AOE without this hovering stuff and you have an air unit that counters blobs of land units. The game really needs more stuff that feels unique. The T2 leveller is also an example of a unit that could get some love. Even if you don't change what it does, it would just be awesome if it looked cooler. A laserbeam instead of bullets, maybe with extra damage against walls. I guess it is these little things that would give the units more character and just make the game more attractive (just look at the anchor shooting effect or the SSX effect, it does so much for the game and is really a small change). The grenadier also needs some more work...

/me just tells everyone to be patient while I fix everything with secret mods and stuff that may or may not be on my github account.

Two things bore me about PA

The first is there is no synergy between bot and tank. A mixed composition does nothing

The second is that t2 units are inaccessible.

t2 hovercraft factory i say ... not quickly available which means metal and time investmeant and hovercrafts would likey be more costlier themselves as well ...


"

kind of disagree

t2 is as accessible as there is resources and territory available to players
the biggest problem with t2 is the innitial transition to it ..
in that case i would agree with colin to up t1 pgen output at minimum
but also eventualy lower factorycost

i still find the sudden econmyboost that t2 provides to be the oddball of the game
the economy rather should more be sort of evenly distributed between tiers ...
so that t1 already offers you enough to allow you the option to t2 or orbital ..
and t2 eco simply allows you to spam more of any of the 2 ... at the moment at least powerwise i feel t1 doesn´t offer enough ...

i would ask if someone can experiment/mod t1 pgens to be something like 800 or 850 power
with t1 and t2 mexxes providing 15/20 metal instead of 7/27



as for synergy .. realy the only early 2 bot units that would go well with tanks would be grenadiers and combatfabbers anyway .. as for t2 i have seen players using gil-es and blue hawks behind frontline units and realy tanks have no anti-orbital unit at all neither anti tac missile defense ..
on the flipside air doesn´t realy synergyse with ground or naval either ... it is not like you can put these unittypes into a giant deathball like in starcraft ... they are or at least seem to me be used in a similar fassion as army divisions like pikemen, archers etc.

The decision all players make at the start of the game is either dox or tank. How many bot factories you go is detrimental later on in the game because they do nothing for you, and moving them together with tanks actually punishes the player because the dox die slowly before they get into range.

Infernodier is not viable, and neither are combat fabbers repairing your stuff because everything goes like popcorn and pathing is horrible.

T2 is simply unviable in 99% of situations unless the map very specifically forces it. Trust me, i've tried alot to make t2 work in most general situations, but matiz showed me time and time again that it's simply suboptimal. You will always lose map control and then die to a later t2.

It is not just the high initial cost, but because all the t2 units are priced on their own tier with the assumption that you have a t2 economy. They are priced inefficiently for metal to power, which is why the optimal reason you ever go t2 is not for the units, but for the eco to get more t1 units.

However, once t2 hits critical mass, no amount of t1 can stop it..... Your talking from a view point of single planet 1 v 1. Multi planet, FFA and team games make t2 a must have. Heavy defences and walls also force t2 even in a 1v1. A single planet 1 v 1 should be t1 focused IMO, as otherwise t1 would have no use at all (which was my experience with sup com online).

I agree bots have little utility on a land battle though.