The Politics Thread (PLAY NICELY!)

Seems to me that terrorism correlates much stronger to whether a country is active against terrorists.

France, by virtue of being historically responsible for freedom, is basically enemy number one. (IS even said so)
Germany, by virtue of being friendly to syrian refugees, is a target because it goes against the trend of hatred for foreigners, and the more hate there is for migrants, the more recruitment IS has.
Belgium is a target because it's the seat of the EU.

At least US politics make for a very good base of very great comedy.

you've gotta do better than that son. I asked for sources not for words.

If you're going to want to claim that a majority of aggression/crisis situations are saved/helped by a carry you're going to have to document it.

and unfortunately for you right now it's just wishful thinking. the stats are against you.

that you have one or two isolated cases you can closely identify with just makes you into the guy who saw a tree collapse before him and thereafter claimed that ALL trees ALWAYS collapse when he looks at them.

this, as you know, is exactly the rhetoric of flat earth theorists : "Well .... look at it!" and ....well pollution deniers "it was cold that one time!".

I'm sorry to chuckle when you use the word "mountain" to define your words and anecdotes as source without a single reference or anything an exterior party can go on of authority/credibility to accompany them.

half of the things you said had no relevance : for instance how am I supposed to take you meeting peaceful armed citizens as part of the "statistics" supposed to prove something to me: a majority of carries stop crime?

A. It's not statistics
B. that's not how statistics work. that's not how any of this works.
C. what, did no shootings happen when you met them? great on you buddy but unfortunately that's not at all the point (and I feel that might have dug you into an even deeper hole).
D. I can see how these events would spring up in your head when in need of pro-gun prosaic, as there may not be any single time where you discuss pro gun in a more pro gun environment than that.

(unfortunately, as I'm sure you're realizing now, bathing in a circle-jerk environment where none ever has to TRY or TEST their arguments and therefore runs with the weakest thing they have breeds argumentative weakness.)

Oh ok I get it now @thetrophysystem how you "feel" things are > facts.

aka guns aren't the problem

Selective quoting for the win.

Okay, so the people spared from the South Carolina Nightclub shooting, the ones that will recover and not be put to grave, they don't matter, they don't count, they aren't a source and are irrelevant. However, if, IF they WOULD have died, they would have became much more a source for gun-control in death, then they ever were one against it in life. That's pretty harsh of you... but okay.

The fact that, given 3x more vehicular deaths than firearm deaths when removing suicide, means that since I know I'm not committing suicide with a gun, I'm three times more likely to die in a vehicular incident than to a firearm, is irrelevant. Not a source whatsoever. Never presented a source for that anywhere in this many-paged thread.

Eyewitness accounts are not a source. The fact that I'm still alive this very moment, and haven't died to gun violence, isn't a source. The fact I have been nearly-killed by others' careless driving multiple times, but never threatened with a firearm by anyone but the police interestingly enough, is irrelevant. Cool story bro.

Nope, I guess I have no sources whatsoever. You win.

Your problem is that all you say is "look there it happened once that a gun saved the day". That's anecdotal evidence and not very valid for the discussion at large. It's nice something "good" happened that involved a gun, but the large pictures looks not that pretty and you're ignoring it.

You are a sample size of one. I am alive without ever carrying a gun in a place where practically nobody carries guns with them. The thought of carrying around a gun in public is scary to people here.

There are some concepts you can use (and have been used) in this thread to make a sort of reasonable argumentative defense for why taking away guns from the Americans now is a bad idea. I'd still disagree, but it would be a lot more meaningful as an argument than "I am still alive so it can't be that bad". Like I'd have to actually find counter arguments. With pure anecdotal evidence however all you get is "so you have no source".

Here have some anecdotal evidence against guns. Standing alone it's not very meaningful as well, but it might show you that just stating singular examples of things that happened isn't enough.

I am too lazy to search, so google yourself, but a while ago a student from Germany who was visiting the US in an exchange program got shot dead by some guy who saw the student trespassing a little into the guys garage. Not nice behavior by the student, but the guy decided to teach him a lesson and shoot him dead on the spot. What about that poor student?
Around here the worst thing that can happen to you when you trespass your neighbors ground is getting yelled at. In the US you can end up getting shot since so many people have guns and a short temper.

no matter how unjust you think that is numbers are always more important than personal experience.

for example you'd say : "oh these dozen deaths don't matter?" No they do. It's just they loose out to the bigger majority of tens of thousands of deaths that you can avoid in exchange for those dozen.

you know how it is.

horridly enough the world works that way in almost everything.

And you've seen a billion of these movies before where you're screaming at the screen because the hero is hesitating when it's a matter of sacrificing one to save millions and there shouldn't be any hesitating to do. how many damn movies/shows are there that do that?! it's crazy!

So it should be really easy for you to understand that if statistically out of MILLIONS of data entries (13 years of data gathering by the FBI across both dem. and rep. regimes) 3% of concealed carry actually do ANYTHING other than cause more of a mess in a situation of danger including but not limited to saving lives.

then you realize that this three percent isn't a worthwhile choice for the global population.

you're not in the majority of the life saving business.

and those who are defending gun ownership are fuckin the rest of the population over deep. and it's not fuckin fair!

Comparing things to deaths by vehicles is rarely a winning argument. I understand you might feel ganged-up on here, but your selective replies to people don't help my impression (personally) that you want to actually debate this and entertain opposing ideals. You just want to "win" the argument.

And sure, you can accuse me (or others) of wanting to do the same, but honestly, I want to understand. If what us "regressive leftists" say is true and gun culture is a large problem in America, I need to continue to develop my understanding of that culture. Right? There's no "winning" on an Internet forum when people are getting shot to death on a nigh-daily basis outside (well, a bit further than outside given I'm in the UK, but still).

I haven't died yet. Want to know why? I haven't come across someone wielding a gun. If my personal evidence were all that was needed, I'd just put an "/thread" and leave it at that. But our experiences, as powerful as they might feel to us (obviously), but are only our experiences. They do not indicate a trend. They don't speak for a majority of opinion and don't come anywhere near to forming a factual basis for debate.

No, you haven't died yet to a gun because you haven't come across someone who A) is wielding a gun and B) is willing to use without any provocation. Do you know how small that chance is? Less than you being struck by lightning, because this isn't the wild west in the USA.

We aren't crazy, Pro. We aren't intolerant, Gorbles. We aren't ignorant, Tatsu. We aren't afraid, Colin.

We are educated, trained, lawful gun owners. And we are just done with your bullcrap.

Offcourse not I'm white and we don't have US cops here Also police forces here shoot to disable not to kill.

Like I said I don't expect anything to change regarding gun laws / restrictions in the first coming 20 years in the US, it's quite pointless to discuss about it.
Can't blame non-US people to find your gun obsession weird, it's so alien to us, like it's so alien for you guys to be gun-less.

Still if I ever go to the US, I'll probably feel less safe then over here.

Anyway new topic please, cause any candidate doing very anti-guns things is going to lose a lot of voters. So I don't think it will be a very big point in the upcoming election.

Am i seriously the only one seeing this ?

what kind of a pull-out-of-your-*** number is that?

with only the two to choose from I'll take my chances with lightning thank you very much

Seems that chance is pretty high when you're a black man facing a cop.

Crazy, intolerant and ignorant are three of THE first words that spring to mind when thinking of an 'average' person, wherever they are from.

I've met plenty here in the UK, I've also come across some prize idiots from the states and many other places. That's the problem... YOU might be very responsible with a gun, but I seriously doubt all gun owners are.

From what I'm hearing, I personally think the states needs much stronger vetting over who owns a gun and for what purpose. I don't agree with banning things outright, the UK and Europe in general are a bit too quick to do so, however I can't see a strong argument against managing the situation.

You have to pass a test and various medical requirements before getting a drivers license. The same should apply to guns as they are arguably more dangerous in the wrong hands.

psycology is a crazy-asss thing.

people start revealing hard truths about themselves when on the back foot :

sounds like someone who's pretty afraid to me


actually terrified defines it better.

/unrelated : "stealing and/or murdering your household" ....

phrasing xD

Arming yourself with the biggest gun you can get to fight the evil police is the way to go

that'll just get you shot by the police more.

Not if you shoot them first!