The Politics Thread (PLAY NICELY!)

You believe that you have done the best you can given your circumstances, correct?

You could build a team. Find someone who is willing to share your vision or follow your lead and can do engine work. That's hard, but definitely doable.

Yup.

Still poor (by conventional definition of not having savings and earnings equal to expenditure. I'm not in poverty, quite obviously). Sorry to break your worldview.

Then you have made the choice not to better yourself and yours. Sorry m8.
I'm in a similar position myself (or, I was until about a month ago). Just without the SO part. . Now I've got a growing online business and a full time job. All it took was for me to choose which outcome I wanted.

Saying you've done your best is like saying you know enough and shouldn't need to learn more.

This isn't to belittle you G. It's simply the way life works. Choose to be happy. Choose to make difference. Choose to go the extra mile. Choose to get out of a dead end job and gamble on something new. Saying it's because you were forced there and thus the entire economic system should be changed to fix this 'problem' is hilariously self-centered and irresponsible.

Gorbles, you never broke my worldview. You aren't the first person I've met in this situation. You're also not the first to blame it on the system.

You're not very good at understanding the English on display here, are you?

I have done the best I can do. I am continually doing the best I can do.

Ergo, I have not made any choices that are not an attempt to better myself or the situation I am in. That is what "the best" means. It means I have done the best for me and mine. It does not mean I have made subpar choices. It does not mean I am making bad choices. It means I am making the best choices I can. Very simple words we're using here!

Not everyone can take a "gamble", because not everyone can afford to be jobless for even one month. As I said in a previous post, but I doubt you even bothered to read it properly given the lack of reading comprehension you're displaying at this point.

If I could magically upgrade to a better-paying job with no downsides immediately I would. Anybody would. This is not feasible advice for a lot of people. It is bad advice. Stop giving bad advice, and then you might be less surprised at how people react to you

Oh, I'm sorry. You didn't read my English. You either accept your circumstance or you choose to be successful in spite of them. You have accepted them. Ergo, you will not be breaking out of your mold anytime soon. Have fun in the rat race.

How do you "choose to be successful in spite of them". How are we defining "successful" here. How is your consistent postings of truisms actually helping anyone achieve anything if you never explain how?

I mean, I could say "at least my life doesn't suck like yours does" and just repeat that every time you ask me why. It wouldn't help though, and is borderline trolling.

So, what gives?

(I'm dropping the English tangent because it's patently obvious after your moving of the goalposts that you don't understand what "doing the best you can" actually means. Nowhere in that phrase is the meaning of "acceptance")

Unless you're very lucky your own failure at something will make you understand one day: You can chose to be successful all you want, if your bank account is in the red and you're trapped in an endless cycle of having to work just to pay your bills you'll not make a difference.

Think of it in terms of a match of PA: If you're behind really bad you'll need a miracle to get out of it. You can't just "chose" your way out of it. And stop blaming that on bad choices at the start of somewhere, you can't chose your parents.

And in some PA matches you can't chose your spawns.

Also some start with 2.0X eco

Some others with -0.5x on income and 10x on costs.

PS: Since when did "choose" and "chose" become the same tense?

When every one of us made a typo reinforced by eachothet's typo. XD

We're developing the english of the future.

Doing the best you can implies that you believe you can do no better. Because you can do no better, you have accepted your current situation and will continue to *do your best* until you reach a point where you are completely broken by your circumstances. At which point you may choose to change. You haven't chosen the hard path.

Successful is more of a generalization here - the point is to become financially independent of the system. Financially self-sufficient is another term for it. In layman's terms, you don't need someone else to make money.

Everyone starts in a different position in life. Everyone in the USA has the opportunity to change that status, no matter their starting point. I'd rather not see Bernie trying to limit those who have broken free of the system due to their hard work and labor. I am not talk about the super-rich here. I am talking about people like my dad, who gets taxed almost 50% in total per year, despite being 'middle class.' If he wasn't being taxed so heavily, he could pay for my schooling and my brother's and still have the money to go on a yearly vacation to the beach.

Gorbles, there are always options to change and choose a path to financial independence. Saying you are locked in a box financially is defeatist and will only lead to more of the same. I don't have specific advice for anyone on how to change their situation because I haven't quite figured out my own yet. I'm saying that you can wake up every morning and choose to change your situation for the better in any way possible. I've done it. I have friends who do it. The richest in the world do it.

Blaming the system is never the solution. Leeching off the successful and the wealthy is never the solution. Stealing via taxes is never the solution. The government is for protection from malicious entities, not welfare. It is for defense, not personal vendettas against demographics. You want a utopia? Find the way to heaven. Apparently there's one there. It sure as hell ain't happening on this green Earth.

Humanity isn't perfect. And, since we aren't god-like, we never will be. That's simply the way it is.

If your dad pays 50% tax he is by definition pretty damn rich. Here's the UK breakdown for income tax:

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/tax/income-tax-how-much-should-you-pay/income-tax-rates/

And you fundamentally lack an understanding of what "doing your best" means. If I am constantly doing my best, I am constantly attempting to better my situation. It doesn't always work out. I have longterm plans and I have shortterm plans. But none of them magically make me rich.

You have no idea what a "hard" path entails. From the way you phrase things, you've never had it "hard". You made some money and you assume everyone else can. Don't you remember my post when I pointed out my outgoings. When I pointed out I earned the UK average? Not everyone earns the average, and not everyone can earn more than the average because that's not how averages work. Do you have any understanding of the economy? If everyone could just earn more all the time forever by making "hard choices" the global economy would collapse through hyperinflation. Basic economic lesson.

But then again, my dad doesn't earn anywhere near enough to pay 50% tax on his earnings. I'd imagine even if you didn't benefit from that you most definitely did during your upbringing and this has completely warped your view of financials.

(your dad would also benefit from schooling in America not being so damn expensive. Bernie would actually help you there, perhaps Clinton too but I don't hold out much hope)

EDIT:

I found a calculator for the US: http://www.moneychimp.com/features/tax_brackets.htm

How on Earth is your dad even paying 50% tax, unless you're combining different taxes into that figure.

His state and federal taxes combine to total around fifty percent. He is not rich.

Oh, so now I'm a spoiled brat who has never had it hard? Yeah, no. Even webby can confirm that isn't true at all. Now you can't even admit that what I'm saying has some truth in it. You are desperately backpedaling.

And no, I don't want Bernie's free college plan BS. It won't benefit me because I'll have payed off my school loans by that point anyway so it doesn't matter. It won't benefit my kids because by the time they get to that age, I'll be wealthy enough that the taxes will have me screwed.

You've accepted your fai?ure. Quit trying to act like it isn't your choice. It is your choice. You can't blame anyone else. After all, noone forced you to go to college.

You're uncomfortable with me insinuating things about your attitude and upbringing, but you're comfortable saying the same kinds of things to me.

Odd.

Also, seriously:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Income_tax_in_the_United_States#Marginal_tax_rates_for_2016

This includes FICA and other contributions to provide an accurate example of taxation. So unless your father is incredibly poor and lives in a hole somewhere, the logical conclusion is that he earns enough to be taxed to a total of 50% of his income.

Deal with it. I mean, for you to honestly believe taxation is "stealing from the rich", your father logically must be rich. To pay the taxes that you think are stealing. These are all things you have said. You can't just stamp your feet on the ground when people call you out for them

PS:

Getting a job in the UK without a degree is very, very hard. Once again, you're telling me to accept things without knowledge of the situation, while getting mad at me attempting the same towards you.

To be fair I've seen within my own family that poor Republicans still have the same views. Even when they've been on financial assistance before... They still believe everyone ELSE on it is a lazy bum stealing from the rich, they were just an exception.

Debates in the family are quite one sided.

I've never been on welfare and I'm working every day to ensure I never have to stoop that low. Hypocrisy is not something I actively participate in.

Gorbles.....lol.
Overtaxing is stealing. Wealth redistribution is stealing. With exception, those who are financially independent earned their keep. They deserve what they earned or created. Saying they can afford to be taxed more isnt a long term solution. It's a feel good one, and it won't grow the economy.

Angry? Lol. You haven't seen me get angry.
Getting a job in the UK without a degree? Move to the US, we've got plenty. It's probably cheaper too
And please. My dad isn't rich. Mid-upper middle class. Still gets 50% chopped off from state and federal. Debating with me on this is not worth for you. I've seen his numbers, you haven't. I won't give them to you because he doesn't want me sharing them. It's also none of your business, but that's not relevant. I volunteered the info.

When you saturate the economy with a bunch of degree wielding young folks, it decreases the value of the degree.
Which is exactly why school shouldnt be free here in the USA. It (theoretically) keeps out the people who have no business getting a degree in the first place. It's not a perfect system, but it's worked well so far, rising tuition aside.

Gorbles, do you feel powerless and weighted down by your situation?

You can be middle class and still rich. Just another thing you don't understand, I guess.

I mean, you're seriously suggesting I just "move to the US", like it costs nothing at all.

I do agree that artificially-inflating the value of a degree lowers it's worth. That, again, is a basic economic argument. However, you shouldn't require a degree for every job (degrees aren't great for practical fields), which would trim down the relevance of degrees without imposing an artificial barrier of funding on the situation.

However, of course, that's the entirety of your worldview, isn't it? Stuff needs to cost money otherwise the people who have "no business getting stuff" manage to get the stuff, and that's bad. Circular logic for the win. In this case, a degree. I wonder if you meant to say "dumb" there. Or something even more discriminatory.

Money isn't smarts, you know? Placing a barrier of funding in front of education has little correlation on the resultant education of the population. It just makes the divide between the poor and the rich greater. Which is precisely what's happening. Wealth inequity is at an all-time high. The UK government had to redefine what was classed as poverty in order to say they were combating poverty (spoiler: they're not doing it very well). And in America we have people like you who believes everyone who is poor is a sad shmuck who settles for failure, and everyone who is rich definitely 100% earned their keep and should never have to share it ever.

I am depressingly amused. Depressed and amused? All of the above