The Politics Thread (PLAY NICELY!)

Discussion in 'Unrelated Discussion' started by stuart98, November 11, 2015.

  1. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    ....streamed live six hours ago.
    upload_2017-8-15_0-41-43.png

    maybe i stand corrected. maybe trump was a little late on his correction statement.
  2. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    well you'll find adverse opinions for ANYTHING.

    heck you'll find adverse opinions for THE EARTH BEING ROUND

    what am I supposed to say? "great find"?
  3. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    I can't speak for Devak, but that implication sure seemed to be there and last I remember that google guy was indeed doing this. I mean he said "here are women attributes", "here are job requirements, as I see them", "does not fit".
    The attributes were incorrectly used, as said by the scientists who researched them, the job requirements where his personal opinion and issues of women being exposed to quite sexist harassment in various silicon valley companies was mostly ignored.

    And yeah as I said, when I started pointing at the trump-nazi issue I was not aware he had made those new statements. Late, but at least they have happened now.

    Also I fully remember those shocking reports of black clad people wrecking havoc in a city less than an hour of car driving from here.
    I also seem to remember that at the time I did post here, condemning those activities.

    He drove it into a group of people peacefully protesting against neo nazis marching.
    But why do you bring this up now? Since when does it matter who where attacked here?
    So if they were aggressive it is okay to drive a car into them? Probably you don't mean to say that.

    Maybe where you live you talk just completely different, but where I am when somebody is asked to specifically to confirm something and then that somebody just stays silent and walks away it means a LOT.
    Yes Trump by now has broken his silence, which is good. Late, but good.

    I find that typically "news" sources that have "unbiased" or "uncensored" or "the real truth!!!111" in them tend to be conspiracy theories. Serious news sources do not need to use those words, as those words are clearly meant to appeal to the conspiracy theorists nut jobs who currently are building up a story of the whole neo nazi protest march being a false flag operation by some mysterious jew controlled dark world elite.

    If you want me to take you more serious you ought to stop using the same vocabulary those people use, as it stands you fit right in with them, in used vocabulary as well as ideological argumentation.
    Last edited: August 14, 2017
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  4. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    So if you're not with me, you're against me.

    Liberal Logic. You're in deep man. DEEP.

    Expecting everyone to chastise your enemies alongside you or else they're alt-right hitler scum, is pretty stereotypical.

    I haven't killed ANY jews and do NOT plan on it. I am NOT alt-right. End of.

    All I am, is someone that sees both ends of the stick. For the democrats, the bad stuff as well as the good. For the republicans, the good stuff as well as the bad. Generally, both have a lot more negatives, but occasionally, they even do some good things.

    For the record, Hitler never once spoke against racism, acts of hate, or violence. I HAVE spoken against those acts and stances, and so has the politician in the link.

    Face the facts. Not everyone against you, is alt-right, racist, violent, or Hitler. Not I. Probably not him either. Probably not Hillary, though "hate" and "manipulation for luxury" are two different things and both tend to oppress. Honestly, Trump's probably just as guilty of the "manipulation for luxury" part, there was a greater chance he wouldn't once elected, but it looks about cookie-cutter bullshit at this point tbh.
  5. walmartdialup

    walmartdialup Active Member

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    Oof, big thread. I'll add my two cents and run away.

    I think you guys are over analyzing things a bit too much. I know my small group of friends, neighbors and coworkers doesn't represent the greater ~300000000 people in the USA, but I believe that most people aren't concerned with the riots and such. If anything, the media is just another avenue of entertainment that is competing with other shows like LIVE PD. Most people are jaded by the whole discussion and just want the federal government to actually do something, like tax reform or healthcare or infrastructure or .... anything. Trump saying something stupid isn't anything new and people want actual change.

    One thing Trump DID do is suggest the idea of less regulation. It could be my gut messing with me, but it appears this IS rubbing off with builders in my area. Townhomes are trying to be zoned and thrown up on every empty lot imaginable, and I feel this has something to do with Trump's stance toward less regulation. Since the planning can take 4-8 years, or less, this is what I have been going through. I have gone to three different townhalls meetings to express my opinions and I feel that there may be more in the coming years. The emphasis to build wasn't there 4-5 years ago.

    Every state and county is different, so this may just be a more local thing.

    I know townhome construction isn't as provocative as the whole alt-right rhetoric. I often feel that the federal government does set a tone for what will happen in the coming years though and this is what I have seen thus far.
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  6. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

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    For the hundredth time man, go read the document properly if you want to make claims about what it says. A helpful exercise you should be practicing is writing down your hypothesis on a piece of paper, then going into the document and finding quotes that support and/or deny your hypothesis to evaluate it's validity.

    He said,
    • Here are the personality differences between men and women
    • That means they prefer doing certain types of jobs that are more people orientated, less stressful etc.
    • Tech jobs often do not match those specific preferences so they tend not to choose this kind of work
    • Here is how we can change tech jobs to match their preferences and attract more women/

    Who cares whether he said it specifically or not, that's really such a child like way of thinking and I mean child like in the scientific objective sense. Little children haven't developed a theory of mind to understand context and nuance, they need things to be directly spelled out for them or else the things literally don't exist like a game of peekaboo. Here's what I understood that you didn't.

    Trump: We condemn in the strongest possible terms this egregious display of hatred, bigotry and violence on many sides, on many sides. It has been going on for a long time in our country -- not Donald Trump, not Barack Obama. It has been going on for a long, long time. It has no place in America.

    Media: Do you condemn the neo nazis

    Trump: The **** kind of question is that you retards did you not just hear me? Better not say that openly, just walk away from these flapping seagulls.

    I'm saying that it takes two hands to clap. Violence like that is never ok, but it certainly wasn't unprovoked. Both sides are hateful and violent and it's interesting that Trump is smarter than you in realising it. He's like the only adult in the room which is just sad.

    That's why i have always suggested to you to read widely and get your news from a variety of alternative sources so that you can do a triangulation to figure out what's happening. No-one is going to have the entire truth. The right leaning sources are going to say antifa are violent scum and only report those cases, and the left leaning sources are going to say neo nazis are scum and only report those cases.

    That's why I linked you specifically to Tim pool to get started. He's center left just like you. He's constantly telling his viewers not to solely trust anyone because everyone has an innate bias. He does actual journalism by traveling and reporting from the ground instead of sitting in an office block regurgitating an ideological model in his head. There is a lot more to the world than Alex Jones vs News Incorporated.

    You should read outside the echo chamber that keeps saying Trump is a neo nazi and Trump is a russian spy. Although I guess I can't really fault you for that seeing how ban happy Germany is towards online independent news content. You guys are basically almost like China on that front..
  7. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

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    Exactly! If the media were doing their job instead of constantly race baiting in their little bubble they would be holding Trump's feet to the fire on actual policy like his tax cuts, healthcare, infrastructure spending, regulatory peelback and other bureaucratic reform.
  8. Gorbles

    Gorbles Post Master General

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    Yeah @elodea, who cares if the leader of one of the largest powers on the Earth doesn't explicitly condemn Neo-Nazi activity.

    Who cares?

    Certainly not leaders of the white nationalist movements related to said march, who took Trump's non-specific statement as being good for them.

    There doesn't need to be any nuance around condemning Nazis. They're Nazis. They have the swastika tattoos, they're reciting the fourteen words, they're shouting homophoic, sexist and racist slurs, and they're overwhelmingly white. Nazis.

    No nuance required. Condemn, or be condemned for your lack of convictions. There is no middle-ground with people that espouse literal, actual genocide.

    Not everybody is alt-right.

    You pretty much are though. I don't care if you're against me or not, I'm just gonna keep calling it as I see it. You could agree with me on a topic and I'd still call you it.

    Because I haven't met someone outside of that demographic that uses "cuck" unironically.
  9. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    didn't we establish that provoked violence is just as bad as unprovoked violence two pages ago?

    I must question your need to bring it up this way.
  10. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    some fun :

    Scaramucci interview with stephen colbert (some of the things that can happen these days are so crazy)

    but yeah it's great to have bipartisan representation.



    and also the best possible way to describe what happened :
    Last edited: August 15, 2017
  11. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    How is that different from what I said? Your first three points are my first three points. Yes after the "does not fit" he continues with "this is how it might fit better".
    Points to him for trying to provide some constructive critic. Still lots of problems before he gets there.

    Reasonable adults who condemn nazis do. A lot. You seem to fail to grasp the concept of non verbal communication, i.e. silence on a important question, but that is what happened.
    Well you DO grasp the concept of reading between the lines really well whenever Trump says things that are xenophobic on face value. THEN you suddenly manage to interpret an amazing amount of things.

    Also consider that the actual leaders of those neo nazis went "he did not blame us, that is good for us, we like him for that".
    When a neo nazi says that he likes you for not telling him he is an ******* directly enough you quickly should change that. Would you not agree?

    The next time an islamic idiot does the same thing will you also try this hard to justify it?

    The news I read have actual trained journalists doing just that.

    Well personally I am fine that running sites like the daily stormer would be a serious crime around here.
    If you instead want to call them "news" then ... oh well.
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  12. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    May I ask what separates them from The Daily Show, or even an speculative article with full disclaimer included?

    Why does 1 get government allowance, the other gets banned, and the third one also gets banned "just because better safe than sorry"?

    We want news to be srs bsns, just ban any parody or biased piece, anything that draws a conclusion for you.

    Nobody does that. They can all claim their "prefabricated conclusions" are proper conclusions drawn from the news. They don't offer "the news", they offer "conclusions from limited cropping of the news".

    That's generally my problem with media and bans. Let's draw a conclusion between ethnic media and violent crime and then ban it, because that totally doesn't oppress racially? Let's draw a conclusion between punk rock or goth rock, and suicide, and ban it, because that totally doesn't oppress a large ******* group of poorly represented yet highly contributing members of society?

    **** bans, and quite frankly, if you're actually willing to go to someone or their viewers and arrest them over media creation and usage, then **** you too, and if you're willing to shoot them in their face and orphan their children because they refuse to let themselves be arrested over a stupid petty ban in the first place, then **** you thrice. That's the bottom line on bans, don't use them to arrest those of victimless actions like "owning a gun", "stating a statistic", "being in possession of a copy of Mein Kampf", or "running an internet article that speculates based on statistics of Mein Kampf related violence". That's oppression and euthanasia.

    Hell, what I always wondered about every damn government, is why, if a law is for the good of society, does taxes not cover enforcement of that law without extreme and often monetary penalties? Guns are banned by vote of majority, then it might work for your governing body and jurisdiction, so confiscate them. ...but why try not only offsetting costs but literally profiting off of fines? Why not just make thousands of laws, each with fines, so you can earn thousands of times more money? Because the laws aren't always "for the good of the people", as they are "the good of the government and/or it's coffers".

    Words invoking a violent police response, hardly sounds like "rational reaction". If they were actually linked to some form of violence or with the purpose to organize violence, is where "victims" start coming into play, which is the literal minimum threshold for police action to be a rational response to words. Is if the words, were a direct support for violence toward someone else. I'm not talking spinning Trump's words around. I'm talking white-nationalism, and only if their stance is "take the country back by force" or some ignorant AND VIOLENT garbage. Immigration legislation is hardly a violent stance, and in itself hardly makes you a white-nationalist any more than it makes you a registered KKK member. (or alt-right. Not that my stance on immigration legislation even remotely resembles white-nationalism, alt-right, or the KKK)
    Last edited: August 15, 2017
  13. Qzipco

    Qzipco Active Member

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    I just read your last post on the google memo from James Damore, not really sure if you are supporting him or if you are against him. However, as far as I'm concerned he told the truth and substantiated his claims with facts. Man and women differ biologically. What Damore tried to do (You probably know this) is to explain why there aren't many women in top position and to my knowledge he gave fair points, again substantiated with facts.

    Here is an interview with Damore and Jordan B Peterson, a psychologist. Peterson reviewed the memo and said that Damore didn't say anything that is untrue according to the pychological knowlegde we have today. Interview starts at 00:53.

    NOTE: Jordan Peterson provided multiple reverences, for each claim made by Damore, in the description of his video.

    Last edited: August 15, 2017
  14. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    To disqualify women biologically from duties, is where I'd argue is unfair. If they were truly unfit, qualifications could be proven on the individual level. If no women could open a jar, then a jar-test would disqualify all women fairly. However, we all know that's horse-excrement, plenty of women can open jars, and some men cannot open jars. I'm not sure what the ratio is, but no matter what the numbers, it's unfair to disqualify an individual without individual-merits, or to even award an individual based on merits of his demographic when he's as incapable as all hell to do his job.

    I totally support the statistics and liberty of opinion though. He can say it. We can still invoke civil rights and honor the concept of equality, despite statistics, because we are of a better social structure than biology or statistics. We're human and we possess technology and tools and methods to learn skills and abilities beyond our "natural talents".

    He still probably doesn't help the feminist argument of "wage gaps", but even my stance on that is that the "wage gap" is only fair to fix by "workforce participation" and "uneven wages for equal positions". Those two things are what damns the wage gap, the workforce participation and workweek is slightly higher for males, and the wages for most even positions, especially per-person and for the careers accounting for more than half the workforce, are equal-wages.

    Walmart cashiers, pharmaceutical technicians, warehouse workers, and security officers, all make 8.50, 18.00, 12.00, and 9.00, roughly where I live, and you get not a dime more for being male or female.

    That men make more per dollar thing, doesn't exist in practice, only in arbitrary measurements. If that's an unpopular opinion, then **** it, fire me.
    Last edited: August 16, 2017
  15. Qzipco

    Qzipco Active Member

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    Well, in the societies where the most has been done to move the social world into a position of radical equality , the personality differences between man and women maximize. A study has been done in the Scandinavian countries, which are the countries this has occured the most, the differences between man and women based on their work occupation became larger. For instance, there is an overwhelming preponderance of female nersus and an overwhelming preponderance of male engineers. Why? There are two sources of variability in personality and you can categorize them genetically and sociologically. If you take out all the sociological differences between the landscape in which men and women are rated, then all you have left are the biological and genetic differences.
    The differences in personality between man and women are NOT culturally constructed.

    O yeah, the so called wage gap has been debunked. Women choose jobs that are payed less, that's why they earn less overall.
    Last edited: August 16, 2017
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  16. thetrophysystem

    thetrophysystem Post Master General

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    The differences between man and women also mean literally nothing, to certain men and women. Certain men are less suited for field-combat than certain women, certain women are most certainly better certified for engineering jobs than certain men.

    I know some female engineering majors, they're just as good. How many there are per their gender, doesn't disqualify their specific talents toward it.

    I can't be convinced, that there is a practical standard, to enforce gender structure in limits to what careers some individual person can apply. It may naturally lean to where most women do something, and most men do something, but it shouldn't ruin the lives of any individual, that they were born into their one single life they'll ever get a chance to live, as one gender or another.

    I mean, there is also that "during one of the largest national drafts, this country climbed good the hell out of the economic depression it was in, with the majority of workforce being women", meaning they somehow managed to be baseball players, accountants, pharmacists, assembly line workers, warehouse workers, ect, and yet God didn't come down from his throne and behead us all as infidels.

    As well as the advancements in science by females. May have only been a few, but those few made breakthroughs in their field, just as well as the few males made breakthrough in their field, despite the vast majority of them "merely existing meek little lives".

    Women can do it. It'd certainly help if they'd participate in the first place. I'd say there's more than enough encouragement, specifically targeted at girls to pursue STEM careers, than there are for boys to pursue the same careers. It'd also help if, while women were encouraged NOT to just be housewives although they can if they want, if the stigma wasn't reversed for men being housespouses and being considered "deadbeats" instead.
  17. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

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    You talk a tough talk but don't walk the walk.

    Where was your outrage when one of the bernie bros tried to machine gun 20+ republican congressional members?

    Where was your outrage when a BLM supporter murdered 5 cops in cold blood?

    Where was your outrage when an antifa marxist professor tried to murder 6 people by hitting them over the head with a bike lock?

    Where was your outrage when antifa started throwing mortars into crowds of peaceful free speech supporters?

    Where was your outrage at antifa showing up at a neonazi event and escalating it into a violent confrontation?

    Stop with your fake virtue signalling and malformed principles. Grow the hell up.

    --

    Normal Person: All lives matter
    Leftist moron: Racist! White supremacist!

    Normal Person: All violence and hatred is bad
    Leftist moron: Neo nazi!
    Last edited: August 16, 2017
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  18. tatsujb

    tatsujb Post Master General

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    Last edited: August 16, 2017
  19. gmase

    gmase Well-Known Member

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    Men from some ethnics that happen to be dark skinned seems to be faster than the rest of men. That doesn't mean that no ginger Irish could ever been in the top 10 runners, only that it is very unlikely. That's what statistics mean.

    There are far more young women doctors in my country. And according to feminists, women earn less than men in that job. A like to the first one who guesses why.

    Another story, I participated in an international selection process for an important tech company. The first phase was an online coding test and some automated questions. Do you know how many women got to the second phase in my group of ten men?
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  20. Gorbles

    Gorbles Post Master General

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    Where was my outrage when elodea quotes article headlines from Breitbart?

    olololol

    Keep at it, bro. The definition of fake news. It's telling that all you have left is to tell me to grow up, while adding to my BINGO scorecard with "virtue signalling".

    PS:

    All Neo-Nazi events are by definition, violent. Nazis espouse genocide. Their existence is a violent one, because it is predicated on the direct removal of other people.

    PPS:

    I just realised this was a textbook example of shifting the goalposts. My own views and opinions aren't relevant to the President of the United States firstly refusing to condemn Neo-Nazis, and then later kinda trying to make up for it.

    Nice distraction though, I almost fell for it ;)
    Last edited: August 16, 2017
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