The next step in making the game fresh again

Warning! Not everyone will agree with this, but to those who fully read and listen to my points, those that want MNC to feel fresh again will listen.

The Assassin, remove it, period. It's awful, and its the one class more than any other where if yours sucks you can't win. It has zero consistency with the rest of the game:

Zero consistency: every other class has a role when it comes to map position, not the assassin. It is a backdooring class that gains juice at a far more accelerated rate which makes most turrets almost not worth building and anything other than a rocket turret pointless. It moves much faster than any other class, kills bots with too much mobility/escapability, and is the only one with stealth. I mean the smoke bomb animation has damage resistance, WHY?! In a more balanced MOBAstyle class based shooter where the only counterclass wasn't one that moves at 1/4 its speed, maybe it would work, but not this one.

Assassin encourages stupidity. Lets face it, with the exception of a few pub tryhard a who should know better, assassin has held back player development worse than religion held back science. What does almost every new play run to first? Assassin. What does playing assassin teach a new or bad player about the game? Nothing. What use is an assassin who goes 1-20 and doesn't touch bots? None. Any other class might have contributed something, or tried something different, stray bullets, a firebase, explosive rounds. How many times has a face stabbing assassin charged helplessly at you only to do nothing but die and try again 10 more times in a row? FAR too many times. And in the process they learn nothing about altering their playstyle because all they know is L-trigger

In a competitive PM these are the only thing assassin does:
1. Facilitate bot movement so that 80%+ of the rest of the teams attention is nowhere near the bots, kind of defeats the purpose of a true class based MOBA style shooter when half the game's focus all lies on one class. Yeah tank and sniper kinda do it too, but lets be honest, it's almost all on the assassin.

2. Backdooring. Again, this game is mainly a shooter, getting backdoored by an assassin is so stupid, period. Why should a potentially decent game be ruined because two slim bots snuck by or worse yet, gremlins. It draws too much looking back attention and takes away from the fun of the PVP.

3. Assassin encourages juice killwhorig. Imagine a game where gunners tanks supports etc had to do something with their juice other than get kills? Imagine complaining about bot punching resulting in your turrets going down? Imagine turrets being worthwhile? Now this may result in more OT games in PMs, but here's my theory: turn off overtime. Overtime sucks, lets face it. It's frames are awful and it hardly rewards the true winner half the time. Lets also consider the worlds BY FAR most popular online game has average game lengths of 35-50 minutes (League of Legends). As long lobbies can be responsible enough to make truly balanced teams, nobody would really mind an epic longer game

Additional pros of no assassin: a PM lobby can work with 10 people!!! Also, when 12, it opens the door for a new creativity in lineups. One of the biggest things holding back the norm of 1 per class was the demanded balance of needing a tank to counter the assassin and needing an assassin because the other team had an assassin. With no assassins tank has increased value for bot control and no longer can you play tank as a zero responsibility class as long as you kill a few bots. Tanks will be expected to perform just as well as every other class, and with an extra front liner, maybe even an extra gunner, supports will need to take off the blinders and look around and perform better as well.

Well there it is, since it is absolutely impossible to get anyone to committ to a team in this game how about we just change up the game to make it fresh again. I really despise everything about assassin from how gay it is in pubs, to how nobody seems to play it properly, to its extreme inconsistencies with ping. The class just sucks and I think removing it from PMs is the right move going forward with making pickup PMs fun again and overall encouragement and force for everyone on all classes to perform better and share the responsibilities of bot control and turret killing

Edit: I posted this from my phone so if I feel like proofreading and editing typos later I will.

Edit2: host assassin is extremely OP and off host assassin grapple battles are absolutely retarded and luck based, everything about assassin buttons and skills are luck and lag based. Fvck assassin

Edit 3: fvck assassin

Edit 4: FVCK ASSASSIN

Nope, just better than you. Even on your host.

Would be interesting to see which double class would be the "best". Snipers / Assaults / Gunners for rock / paper / scissors would probably be what happens. Would like to test this with "good" people in pm's when / if they happen.

EDIT - Don't really want to play G3 though.

The game needs to be, you know, refreshed to keep it fresh. Maybe a patch? But, we all know that will never happen as long as it is on Xbox.

I will take a look at the Indie dev tools M$ is talking about for the XBONE, and if they are any good I have a great idea for a game. The main question is if indie games will have access to Azure or not...

Specifically to your post, every 5v5 I have done has had problems with teams breaking after every match. Maybe I am doing something wrong, or it is just my host. I don't know.

Interesting.. I read it all and normally would have a lot to say, but I'll have to think about this one a bit.

I think we played 5v5 no assassin and I felt that was the best class to remove, but as far as 6v6 goes I'm fine with the assassin's role. I just wish players utilized her better than what they have been. Lately assassin's have such a linear mentality. If you watch shammas' assassin video where he's yelling at his team to push up, you'll notice a much more versatile assassin compared to others. It's not all about being cloaked in one lane and waiting for the right opportunity, but about creating opportunity.

When I play assault I admit I focus on the assassin way more than I should instead of letting my team pick it up. First off, I do it because again the assassin's lately play in such a straight line that it's just too easy to lead them with a bomb knowing they'll lunge right into the bots.

Also, games just seem to always go to OT. Maybe with more slaying power you can walk bots in? But good assassins should be able to use juice and get bots in no problem, as well as take keep the turrets down. I find myself using juice as a gunner to take down 2 level 3 rockets because nobody else will.


@wildman, it depends on who is in the game. Is your extra sniper Zatchmo? or is your extra sniper me? results vary on who is filling in the extra role.

As far as all 6 classes go assassin is in fact the worst at walking bots in and needs help from slayers. A juiced assassin is also worse off than any other class with juice making the push. As the game progresses to 3 blackjacks being hit with explosive rounds and everyone fully upgraded with traps charges bombs firebases, a team on their heels is incredibly difficult if not impossible to push bots in as an assassin, even with juice, and help is much more depended on by the other 5 classes

The assassin has a very overrated, annoying, and out of place role compared to the other 6 classes imo. The only time you notice an assassin is when they are bad/stupid, in which case that could be said for any class, but the other class have much better synergy in terms of game flow and map positioning to determine bot and map control in a more fun and rewarding way. Again, imo

It would drastically change things for sure. Assaults seem to have enough trouble as it is keeping the ball tapped. If anything this makes it easier to get the ball back up, which has been done frequently in this era of PMs.

Like I said currently it's just linear gameplay, and maybe get juice and juice on the gunner. It seems like the only time assassin's want to get aggressive and go for kills is on a tank or another assassin. I barely notice any assassin's who are willing to make a the sacrifice in back grappling a support in order to create an opening for map control.

Personally assassin and tank are my favorite classes to play. The reason I love assassin so much is a combination of emphasis on objective work, as well as constantly trying to keep my movements and thought processes fresh. As long as I have a good gunner I usually will try to keep bots pushed in order for the enemy to focus, but I always keep my eye out for a support who is not paying attention.

Regarding your first point, I agree. The assassin needs to get bots in during the 2BJ\1SB wave. Earlier and the slims die too easily to any defender. Later and everyone else is too upgraded; assassin peaks early, the only class that peaks sooner is gunner but they are usually busy slaying. Even with juice 'sin is too easy to stop from walking bots in due to the lack of effective range.

Honestly, I have just stopped trying to get bots in alone and just started trying to get people stuck in the base chasing me, allowing my team to move a little more freely (except on Steel Peel, because **** that map).

What is this "juice" that you speak of when you play gunner? Don't complain about people meleeing bots if you do it yourself.

Jake630 loves to grapple gunners. Does a decent job and usually does it when we're both dancing around the glass waiting for someone to do the first move. Under-rated as assassin that's for sure. Pushes bots and helps in team fights, because nothing beats a Gunner on the spawn ring for keeping people away from stopping the bots. EDIT - But I agree, very rarely will you see the assassin try to help out slaying wise rather than running around and avoiding the tank.

The problem has nothing to do with the assassin, it has to do with people not understanding the game/not being good at the game/not using teamwork. The assassin plays a vital role that very few people can execute and understand, but you can say this about every class in the game. The fact is, the skill level just isn't high enough.

As far as turrets go, I find the Gunner to be 10x more threatening to turrets than the Assassin could ever hope to be. Sure, I don't play private matches, and I don't know how much freedom the Gunner has to go after turrets in a PM. But from what I've seen, even a semi decent Support can shut down an Assassin before she can kill a single turret while juiced. A Gunner? All you can do is sit back as you watch your turrets fall.

And I've been yelling at people about this from the beginning. The Assassin's job is NOT to sit at a bot spawn with cloak 3 to kill wave after wave of bots. She is arguable the most mobile class and can get to any position on the map rather quickly. If the slayers are in a stalemate somewhere in the middle, the Assassin can easily be the one to break that.

The Assassin has more slaying power than lollungegrapple, and I wish people would realize that. I'm not telling them to give up bot slaying and mindlessly chase the Gunner. I'm saying that they should learn how to kill other players and put that to use in a situation where it could help.

I see where your post is coming from, and I must agree with others when they say that it's not the Assassin class itself; it's the way people think she's supposed to be played.

I'm not sure if this is a troll post or not, but it seems legit so I'll add to it.
In a 6v6, you just run 2 snipers and shoot bots, now juice killwhoring is an even bigger problem than before.

Translation: I want to stand across the map and mortar down turrets, so plz stop standing across the map and shirukening down the turrets.

1 class gains juice healing things insanely quick (support)
2 classes gain juice insanely quick hitting bots (assassin, sniper)
2 classes destroy turrets quickly with juice (assassin, gunner)

3 classes can push bots well (assassin, sniper, tank)

2 supports over healing one thing makes it almost impossible to destroy anything without juice.

Punching bots can be countered by explosive rounds, call outs and counter juice, ice trap placement etc...

My problem i have with the game is host privledges and connection issues. Faster fire rates for those with certain pings etc... Aim assisst benefits host. etc...

We could debate it for another ten pages or just give it a shot. I would say I have a pretty decent track record when it comes to new ideas or a different playstyle in this game

Edit: new in game ideas. I've just accepted no matter what myself or anyone does there just isn't legitimate interest in MNC teams, only theoretical interest

Implying that gunners get juice in pm's

Y'know what would make the game fresh again? Smedley's Regeneration Bars! Smedley's, the tasty treat that gets you up on your feet, so you can knock your guy on his seat!

This is not a good idea. You've been playing too much LoL.

Is there a juice tax in the UK? I don't get juice often but I've still gotten it, without punching bots of course. I should have specified in my last post I saw you got quite confused.

But you mortar bots so that doesn't count.

Options: Remove juice all together [x]

I'd come back to Pm's for that ^