The Ethics Of Mods In Competitive Play

This isn't politics. Grow up.

No YOU grow up! start taking seriously the depths of your words.

You're claiming these unjust methods are okay.

Oh, you (plural) are all knowledgeable, and share the exact same view? But you just said hotbuild was fair...

while MrTBSC who is also arguing against use of mods implies that it is unfair.

and

Oh and KillerKiwiJuice says that it's only fair if everyone has the same mods or none. Which also directly conflicts with your statement of hotbuild2 being fair.

But no, I should accept your reply for elodea's argument, because you (plural) are all knowledgeable.

You know, it's rather shocking that multiple different people, even when those people are supporting the same side of the argument, have multiple different views on what is fair and unfair. You know why?

Because it's subjective.

*Edited for messy quotes.

I recommend both of you @mered4 @tatsujb to tune it down. You're both getting pretty personal at each other, please go somewhere private if you want to continue that.

Excellent discussion even with some of the bad mixed in, which is to be expected in any argument. Heck, policy in government isn't done without a little bit bickering.

I feel as though both parties are actually on the same side. Not only do they both care about the spirit and competitive nature of an RTS, they both want PA to be a stable platform that people can depend upon to have fun.

From this discussion, one could infer that the majority want mods. This same majority also recognizes that certain mods may ruin the competitive aspect of PA. As a result, I feel the line that will be drawn is pretty well defined already.

Somebody will draw this line. Whether its uber or the people running tournaments, its uncertain. What is important is that the group that will do it will try and consider the best intensions for the entire player base. Ultimately, there will be people that will follow the rules and will wish to enforce them through means of encouragement or whistleblowing. While we all know there will exist some people that won't follow these said rules, we should all feel good that the community will wish to stop these said rule breakers for the sake of the PA.

The stability of any community is based upon these said discussions and its good to know that they are actually happening. Its hard to think that the line that will be drawn will not be too far from the truth.

I agree with the sentiment of @tatsujb's post so I liked it. I don't however condone personal attacks (although I don't really see that this post in particular falls into that category).

If you have an example of where I've personally attacked another forum user please bring it to my attention and I will gladly apologise for it. Some of these discussions can get pretty heated, I personally don't take anything anyone says personally and I'd hope people know me disagreeing with them isn't meant in a nasty way at all. I felt Elodea was getting frustrated and was getting it bit personal with some of his comments, so I've pointed this out rather than making a formal complaint against him, again I put this down to being invested and passionate about a controversial subject.

I would genuinely like to hear his (or anyone else's) thoughts on my proposal for a system to manage these things. I firmly believe we should be trying to educate new players about the wealth of tools available, whilst maybe we need a few rules on a small number of things that are genuinely unfair (the only example I think that currently applies to is 'Free Energy' which is bordering on an exploit).

Also no need to worry, your posts are all perfectly polite, even if I don't always agree with you

good spirit on the overall post but I have to stop you there.

which mods?

me colin and cdrkf are the main supporters of the "wants mods" cause and we singled out no such mod.

+1

I'll take this opportunity to remind everyone that's exactly where I stand with my posts.

those who have crossed me in voice chat will confirm the real life me is nothing like the forum me.

I like debating. perhaps a bit too much.

but it's not something I really remember at the end of the day. it's not supposed to become a permanent mark on anybody and I live life with the philosophy that nothing is permanent and nothing can be undone when it comes to the moral realm.

you'll always find someone willing to start on a clean slate in me.

And I extend apologies to anyone I may have offended.

There is one I'd personally say is borderline (although as pointed out this is all highly subjective)- Free Energy is kinda an exploit, although I think it's existence does highlight a problem with the somewhat cumbersome energy system within PA.

I'm not exactly sure how much more subjective you can get. I mean, the guy who made UberMap is here. Lol.

okay I need a debreif on free energy.

what is it exactly. I just thought it was something like mass fab manager in FA but extending to all structures?

There is no kind of about it. The ai is doing commands the player normally does themselves at a much higher rate.

so the argument is that people who made mods can't participate in the debate? what?

The argument is that it's irrelevant. And you keep bringing it up. UberMap is unfair for multiple stated reasons.....but Hotbuild without using imba walls isn't. That's it.

It's about the functionality not the subjective usage of it.

??????????

Free energy pauses all energy consuming units / structures when you metal stall automatically. This greatly improves the efficiency of energy use in low metal situations and goes against Uber's design intent of 'fabbers consume fixed energy'. I think the biggest issue people have with this is that it operates at a few hundred apm, no player could achieve the same thing without the mod.

@mered4 you do realize that the argument you begin with ends with : NOONE can debate right?

everyone is either A modder or isn't.

if your logic is to bunch all supporters of "mods in ranked" with modders and bunch all it's opposers with people who don't mod....

then by that logic if modders can't participate in the debate because they are party of interest then neither can people who didn't mod.
that's what I understand.
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but please elaborate to me how you make this logic work one-way if that is what you do.

you know we basically have this mod in FAF : "mass fab manager" and it's authorized so I'm having problems seeing the issue.

as for the fixed energy thing well that's a bug. not really the mod's fault. it's probably good that the mod exists so as to bring this bug to the dev's attention.

I guess the underlying issue is one that I could go into: it involves how the economy in PA is fudged up (something cola agrees on) but it's off-topic ergo for another thread.

(the sum of it is eco is WAY more exponential in PA making this "flesh wound" that this mod represents turn into "a mortal gash")

Read again: its irrelevant so stop talking about it.

Just stop talking tatsu. You are embarrassing.

The amount of stupid here is ridiculous. I walked into a big discussion about this in the realms ts a week back and it took about ten seconds for everyone to get the logic. It's taken you three threads over two days and you are missing it. Wtf.

As for which mods, that is for whomever sets the boundary. I therefore cannot say which mods will be banned. My guess is that not many will be banned. Vague because I don't have an answer.

What is important though is that all three of you will ultimately follow the rules. Hopefully, when the rules are established, you will ultimately understand why they were put in place because the people establishing the rules are well informed and understand the significance of how the rules will impact PA's competitive scene.

You never have to agree with them. The people establishing the rules should never force you to agree with them. What is important is that you will follow them because these rules were decided with the best intensions possible. This is all that matters.