You're once again ignoring the lost income between the MEX being destroyed and the MEX being replaced, as well as any additional losses the defender may suffer and the attention factor of them needing to involve themselves in grabbing fabbers and placing MEXs. However, if you chaps could kindly take this to another topic. This one is not a T1/T2 effectiveness debate.
Yeah, economy output to what you put in makes it really easy to ignore raiding party's taking out 2 or 3 mex's. And the T2 extractor is even better. Id like to see the extractors produce less, and have the T2 extractors produce what the T1 ones do now.
I'm guessing a thread rename is in order. Less "early game is too slow", more "initial build order is inane". Also, does anyone want to do the math on whether building a factory first will mitigate the detrimental impact of not starting with 4 mex by deferring that penalty to later?
I am not sure you even have enough money to start doing so. Tank: http://www.pa-db.com/unit/vehicle_factory Bot: http://www.pa-db.com/unit/bot_factory Air: http://www.pa-db.com/unit/air_factory Navy: http://www.pa-db.com/unit/naval_factory CHRIST why does the air fac cost more?
Well it is kinda silly, with air engineers costing more power to function, most people prefer not to start air. But it usually ends up being essential on mountain worlds.
I think you're ignoring the lost income between the guy who isn't getting T2 MEX going and the guy who is. Losing a T1 mex is a lot of metal lost per minute; this is true. Having a T1 mex instead of a T2 mex is way way more lost metal per minute. Beating you to T2 is better than raiding you in terms of "lost income". More to the point, I have seen this played out many times. I don't find T1 rushes to work against good players but T2 rushes yield pretty consistent results. I think it's relevant to the thread because I consider everything up to the start of T2 to be part of "the early game is too slow / boring / predictable". That is, you think it's boring up til that first T1 factory. I think it's very close to boring up til that first T2 factory. I think most of the T1 options you're seeing are ultimately going to be proven to be false choices.
You have to pay between 11400-13500 metal before you get your first Catapult up and running. That is something that you might not be able to do if you are in a tight spot. That is about 50 Ants. This really depends on the metal distribution on the map. If you make more Ants and kill the enemy army you can also expand more giving you more income as well as denying mexes and destroying mexes for your opponent. Well I haven't really suggested that you perform pure t1 unit rushes. Rather it is about striking a balance between eco, defense, tech and offense. If someone is rushing for t2 this should give you more room to expand and harass and even if you hit t2 a bit later you will do so with much better economy and more territory. Of course if you find it hard to keep expanding, harassing and defending all over the planet then rushing for t2 and getting t2 mexes might be a better alternative for you. However once we get more tools for monitoring the battlefield like multiple windows, better notification systems or some sort of planet overview(like a minimap), then it will be easier to expand, harass and defend all over the planet.
when i liked one change from supcom 1 to supcom 2 it was the fact, that 2 engineers where there from the beginning. This probably will be one possible way for the egg concept, so lets wait for that feature (which is hopefully soon to come)
if it's as moddable as UBER say, none of this is going to be particularly difficult to achieve, post release, so everyone can be happy I like eggs...
Increase starting storage by 400 metal, 10,000 power. Bingo, you can now open with any factory you want and have a huge amount of flexibility and diversity on how you can open and what you can build. I've been here since alpha and have still not seen a single scrap of information about what the egg is, and what it does. I still have no idea why everyone says 'the egg will fix this' and assumes conversation over.
It really annoys me that the build rate of the air fabber is so slow. You could only start with air first with an ideal start, because in other cases the extra movement speed is cancelled out by the slow fabrication and relative fragility of air units, and you pretty much have to get a bot or vehicle factory up and running fairly quick smart in case they send fighters.
You go air first for bomber harass to kill their expanding engineers. Because you haven't built engineers yet your eco is strong enough to get up a bot factory very soon after first air. This has been demonstrated many times by players like Godde.
Exactly. So you immediately abandon the air factory to build bot fabricators. Which comes back to bot fabricators being legends at life. It's annoying that bot fabs are basically the go-to fabricator, unless you're in naval, you can afford to plant something with aerial fabricators some place surprising, or you need to upgrade to T2.
Air fabbers are way faster and aren't affected by terrain. They have to be less efficient or no one would build anything else. However they are too inefficient and could do with a bit of a build buff since they can be easily sniped with fighters.
Exactly that's what annoys me. Reckon they should be at about 8 metal per tick. I'm fine with the energy cost.
Maybe when terrain height etc. becomes more of an issue, they will be of more worth, despite the low health/fab speed? Did I imagine it, will terrain height etc. be more important soon?
I disagree. We need all the structures (framework) in place first. What you are discussing here is simple to fix at any point. Its really just the way the game starts which quite frankly is trivial to implement once the full framework is in place and we can better speak to the game as a whole.
You would prefer Uber implement one thing, then completely change it later, rather than us simply brain storming a good implementation in the first place? Why do you hate money?
