The Alpha Commander

Discussion in 'Backers Lounge (Read-only)' started by garat, July 17, 2013.

  1. KNight

    KNight Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,681
    Likes Received:
    3,268
    Figured as much, But a Technical question in that regard I got is, Why do they need to be SO rigid?

    I understand the idea behind it, and it does make a log of sense and help cut down on things like Walk/turn/death Animations in terms of the legs, but How do the arms factor into that? 95% of the time they'll be governed by the Aiming of the Gun/Lathe no? I'd hope the system to be flexible enough so that you could have the Alpha's Wider shoulders, so long as the structure is the same aside from it being wider.

    Otherwise I gotta say I'm worried that we'll end up with a bunch of commanders that look same-y, especially given how the Delta Assets for the Gun and Lathe were used again. Is that because that's the way it's being done or just as a shortcut to get it in-game?

    Mike
  2. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

    Messages:
    3,839
    Likes Received:
    1,887
    Watching this one closely. Mike's got everything covered as to what I'd be saying.

    In fact I was saying that the Delta rig felt too rigid during the Pre-Alpha.

    I do have to say however that this looks troubling. Cutting the corners off for the Units I can understand; cost cutting on the Commanders though... that's more concerning.

    What does this mean for the $1000 backers with more esoteric designs I wonder...

    (It's a bit sad that his arms look so much like the Delta.)
  3. dukyduke

    dukyduke Active Member

    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    40
    Concept art and the 3D model are indeed very close, but these few little differences give a very different feeling !

    I'll try to illustrate my words:
    The 3D model looks like a big headed cyclop with "reactors" on his head whereas the concept art looks like a muscular small headed humanoid with "reactors" on his shoulder.

    Anyway both looks good to me (even if I prefer the concept art).
  4. cwarner7264

    cwarner7264 Moderator Alumni

    Messages:
    4,460
    Likes Received:
    5,390
    Mike's analysis probably covers just about everything from an objective standpoint.

    Subjectively it just looks a bit... awkward and precarious. I appreciate we're trying to keep things relatively low poly overall for performance reasons, but there aren't going to be that many commanders in a single game. The Alpha Commander looks a lot blockier than the concept art and I'm wondering whether that detracts from the overall look as well.
  5. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

    Messages:
    3,839
    Likes Received:
    1,887
    It's not his poly-count that's the problem, it's forcing him to adopt the Delta's hip spacing, upper leg density (or lack thereof) and aggressive (wooden) stance. The Alpha Commander looks cool in concept because he's holding his baring like a person does.

    I can ... understand the position that Uber is in here. Money doesn't go on forever...

    If I may be so bold however; why bother having the Commanders be individuals if you're not going to put the effort into making them... individuals?
  6. mushroomars

    mushroomars Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,655
    Likes Received:
    319
    I actually made a post on exactly what you guys were saying, guess I forgot to submit it...

    Glad I'm not the only one that thought these things.
  7. igncom1

    igncom1 Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,961
    Likes Received:
    3,132
    I do feel like the current models arms are shorter then the concept who I feel like had more ape like arms with weight at their ends.

    The current model feels like the arms are more short and rigid.

    But otherwise mike is the man.
  8. osirus9

    osirus9 Member

    Messages:
    145
    Likes Received:
    14
    I gotta agree, that and the super rigid stance kinda ruins it. I won't hate it if it stays like this, but I won't love it either.
  9. menchfrest

    menchfrest Active Member

    Messages:
    476
    Likes Received:
    55
    Just to add my two cents.

    The thing that bugs me the most was actually the gun arm changes to include the shields. I'd prefer the arms look more like the concept.

    And BTW, Mike, awesome figure.
  10. KNight

    KNight Post Master General

    Messages:
    7,681
    Likes Received:
    3,268
    So done some digging, and based on the files in the current build, this is what we have so far;

    [​IMG]

    This changes a few things, for one the Alpha actually has more 400 more tris than the Delta. Also the eye IS modeled, but give that it doesn't look it anyways the tris were wasted.

    They do both have the same exact Rig, and this is honestly troubling.

    Are we stuck with the same gun and Lathe arm for every Commander?

    Does each Commander need to have the the back 'Jets' (as per the rig)?

    Does every commander need arm shields? Toes?

    As said, I understand the idea behind the Rigs, but I don't see what it needs to be so Rigid. Why can't the shoulders be a bit further apart so long as the rest fo the arm structure is the same?

    Overall it feels very limiting for something so important.

    Mike
    chronoblip, thatweirdguy and riboshom like this.
  11. luntbox

    luntbox New Member

    Messages:
    5
    Likes Received:
    2
    I basically agree with Mike, I love the concept but the implemantation currently doesn't fit it. It just looks too....square. I think simply having the angling on the top vents and the shoulders be how it is in the concept would be a vast improvement alone, but the shoulders are also too close together. I also much prefer how the arms are held in the concept, less rigid.

    The legs look pretty good I think, but they are a lot more detailed than the upper body, which is basically 4 cuboids, and the shields look poor when compared to the great chunky detailed guns in the concept.

    To me, the commanders are basically the face of the game and I think they need to look awesome. This doesn't look awesome to me at the moment, I'm afraid to say.
  12. cardboardboxpro

    cardboardboxpro Member

    Messages:
    42
    Likes Received:
    2
    I think he would look better if he had that little hood over the "eye" (like in the image) and if the "eye" was made to be a full square. A red slit in the front just makes him look like he is decapitated or something.

    also I feel that if the front panel that the slit eye thing is located in was more smart car front shaped it would go along way. Then the head simple looks like one of those 80's flip up headlights. and thus it would look nice.
  13. ghostflux

    ghostflux Active Member

    Messages:
    389
    Likes Received:
    108
    When you compare PA to chess, it becomes immediately obvious that the commander does indeed compare well to the king. It doesn't really matter how many of your units die, as long as your king stays alive and safe, you will eventually win.

    And when I think of a king I think of a royal expenditure to outfit a king. A king does not walk in peasant rags, he walks in glorious colourful robes with the most valuable jewels that grace his fingers and necklace.

    That's the feeling I should be getting from the commander, a boss robot who has the strongest and most advanced gear available. As he is in charge of the entire army. As a result he should look intimidating, strong and royal. The Delta commander conveys this well, large shoulders, a slim but strong and muscular looking chest.

    The Alpha commander, looks a lot more standard, less complicated shapes dictate that he's probably cheaper to produce. The relatively small and simple shoulder pieces just don't feel really royal to me. And with the concept art just being slightly cooler, I'd have to agree that the alpha commander could probably use a little make over.

    That said, I do not consider it a priority right now. First get the essentials working, commander aesthetics aren't that important yet.
    Last edited: July 18, 2013
  14. Ortikon

    Ortikon Active Member

    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    183
    I agree with Mike but I think it's really in the physical stance the model is in, and less how it is modeled.
    The commanders are not relaxed at all. I understand that they are robots but they could use a more relaxed default pose. Relaxing the shoulders and forearms and a bit of asymetrical neutral pose could sell this better. The Commanders need a bit more attitude. Right now they kinda feel a bit unintelligent...almost as if somebody in another room is controlling them with a mouse, forever bent on following the will of some mysterious mouse clicker. :shock:
    riboshom likes this.
  15. Ortikon

    Ortikon Active Member

    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    183

    This pretty much sums up what I ment as well. Didnt see this post.
    And the attitude would be coming from the animation. It needs to feel like its smarter than the rest of the army.
  16. BulletMagnet

    BulletMagnet Post Master General

    Messages:
    3,263
    Likes Received:
    591
    What if the arms (both commanders) weren't parallel to the ground?

    Look at the concept art - arms are pulled back in a way that makes the centre of mass rest squarely above the feet.

    Now look at the commanders in-game. They don't posess that. Instead - big, heavy, arms that are way too forward to stand up without tipping over.
  17. Ortikon

    Ortikon Active Member

    Messages:
    414
    Likes Received:
    183

    Ya I feel like they are in a constant need to lift flats of furniture at Ikea.
  18. mushroomars

    mushroomars Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,655
    Likes Received:
    319
    Lol Commanders with idle animations.

    delta_ass_scratch.papa
    delta_pisstake.papa
    delta_Beerfetch.papa
    delta_crotch_adjust.papa
    delta_pretend_rambo.papa
    delta_jazzhands.papa
    delta_pelvic_thrust.papa
    delta_dance.papa
  19. microwavelazer

    microwavelazer Member

    Messages:
    38
    Likes Received:
    21
    To be fair this is the Alpha commander. He is a little rough around the edges. a little unpolished, not quit finished but shows great potential.

    Alpha is Alpha.
  20. nanolathe

    nanolathe Post Master General

    Messages:
    3,839
    Likes Received:
    1,887
    Considering Garat's initial response, I'm thinking they thought he wasn't as unpolished as we think he is.

    Really surprised that no one else thinks his hips aren't a problem. The initial Concept has his hips wider than his torso.

Share This Page