T3 Idea and how it would work

Okay so Meta's thread about risk vs reward gave me this idea. So instead of making T2 so darn expensive and OP how about you leave T2 as it is OR make it a little more expensive to get to and let T2 create T3. This is how T3 would work. T3 fabricators would be able to produce a small amount of buildings but powerful ones. Like instead of giving them the ability to build storage and radar's and such. They could build economy that would be pretty powerful and they would be able to build the megabot factory. Now, the megabot factory costs an incredible amount of resources to make but it is incredibly powerful. Id think this factory would take up quite some space. In order to run T3 you would need to own at least like 2 or 3 planets worth of metal to run them enough just to get up fabricators. They could make plasma defense which could wipe out any lesser technology it its range. They could build a "Planetary Generator" which could activate metal planets that could create a shock wave on other planets that wipe everything out, so really T2 is asteroid and T3 is metal planet destroyer machine. It would work a lot like the halleys where it would require so many generators. The generators would take up quite some resources to make. T3 armies would need to be made out of other factories so T2 builds fabricator factory and T3 fabricator builds super bot factory, these factories would be pretty big in size and would create bots the size of T2 tanks or bigger. If you wanted to make it more complicated then add in super tanks and such. Now to prevent making T3 metal planets obsolete, asteroids could have a counter attack like the anti nuke. Not to sure on how it would work but im sure someone can come up with a good idea. T3 could also be able to reclaim old technologies lost on the metal planet, some technologies could be lost bot armies of T3 or its unique type, or even find prototype bots that were once created and are relatively powerful.

So how would it be balanced?
Before anyone yells out "THAT'S OP" well it would be a late game thing. Think of it, It would be balanced by large systems that PA will have sometime. Also, it would cost major amounts and creating the mega bot factory and making the mega bot could get wiped out by T2 armies. It would take some time and resources to stable out your T3 enough to actually use its weapons of mass destruction. The possibilities are endless and I do think T3 is a necessary thing. It would not be the only option to do because it doesn't mean whoever has T3 wins, it means T3 is a risk and a large investment but its not always the way to go, in some situations you are probably and are likely just to stick and mass produce your T2. You could also make it so your T3 can't assist your other fabricators of T2 or T1 even, and T2 assisting T3 is like a pebble to a house. I think it would really make metal planets actually do something in a realistic range. If you think of it, T1 and T2 are not to far apart, not saying that T2 is a rush thing but like we need an actual end game technology. Most RTS games I have played contain a powerful technology that can only be acquired at the end, for example, Rise of Nations had the information age which contained the artificial intelligence which produced a soldier instantly. We also need to get over the fact of everything being counter-able, if you can stop everything then a game would never get anywhere, T3 is a point to end things and to annihilate things. How would mega bot vs mega bot go? they would kill each other, or even weaken one way more before dieing.

Okay, so I know this is a lot.
I'm not demanding Uber to make this happen instantly, this would clearly be something post release or if its really necessary in most peoples eyes it could get added sooner. Yes it can be perfected, that's what the community is for, so please leave ideas and fixes. I do ask that you think of this being in late PA versions, it would clearly not work in current builds due to the small systems and lack of certain things. Thank you for reading through.

Uber has stated on multiple occasions that T3 and megabots will not be in PA. The game-enders are supposed to be planet smashing and whatever the metal planet weapon turns out to be, not megabots or experimentals (which they feel defeat the purpose of thousand-unit armies that are supposed to dominate late-game).

It was just an idea, possibly could be a mod. I do not think it would replace huge armies as it is a risk type of deal here, I also heard that asteroids were going to be counter-able and I don't know how that is gonna play out. As for megabots I know they said they were not gonna add all this in but I was aiming for late post release.

Hmm, I still believe that T1 should be the bulk of your army (all the things that will get spammed a lot) for drawn out strategies, while T2 should be all the specialized units (units that have a very specific use/function to change the tide of combat) for quick tactics. So if you think of it like that then T3 would def. fit the bill for late game superbots. They could even have a limiting factor that you have to be on at least 2 planets to even build one (don't know how that will make since though).

I like the idea but I have a feeling that the Devs. are very certain that there will be no superbots. But who knows, they did say at one point that there would be no factions and here we are waiting on the 4th faction to be revealed (assuming I didn't already miss it).

If ya want T3 units, mod them in yourself

Hi Killzone, I really like that you put so much effort and thought into this, but why beat a dead horse?

When the game was announced they stated from the very beginning that it will "only" have basic and advanced units. If you really want to make a few changes to the game, I would focus on those 2 tiers and find a solution for your problem there. Talking about T3 will get you nowhere... or as Brandon mentioned, T3 Mods...

Why there is no T3 has been discussed a lot... use the search function and you will see why for example t1,t2 and t3 system did not work properly for many players in FA.

The devs' claim was that there would be no faction-specific units, which they have delivered on. I think you did miss the fourth faction- their commander is the Osiris quadruped, and their fluff is here.

Im not as smart as the bulk of our community mod makers though lol. We could possibly see one of them do it though.

What I am trying to get at is to make the T3 solution actually work. I clearly cant do this myself so clearly the whole community has some good ideas. I figured it would be nice to mention this because meta mentioned risk vs reward in his thread. T3 would be hardly seen commonly and would only be a standoff type of deal here. While you are establishing or making big bots, you could get wiped by t2 armies instead. Thanks for your insight though! much appreciated.

I will humor you. If there was a unit, that was a giant robot capable of firing on 20 different targets with hitscan artillery, but walked very slowly, as in walked to opposite side of size 200 planet in 4 minutes, it would be ok. The counter could just be slowly pecking at it, while the use could be spreading your basebuilding into the enemys base.

The only problem with experimentals really, is really sensitive balance, and the fact they need a role and in normal games it is cracking a turtle base while in PA the game by design doesn't allow such a thing.

So why add a tool, for a nonexistant mechanic? Thus the absense of experimentals. Sorry brah.

For the glory of epicness of course!
lol like I stated before, just an idea. Modders can do it if they chose to do so. My balance is to make it really expensive and make it risky because it would take so long to build while you could invest in some T2 armies right?

Ah thank you, I've been away from the forums for a few months so I figured so.

I personally like your idea, but unfortunately the moment the word "experimental" or "T3" is mentioned on the forums you'll get a fairly large and loud group against it. Nothing against these people, but i'm just in disagreement with them. Heck we even have people against the idea of planet smashing and death stars.

So unfortunately we'll just have to hope that someone mods this great idea into the game.

Yeah I agree. A game developer cannot simply satisfy everyone. But what they can do is make it highly modifiable and people can go right at it. I'm hoping for a program that is simple enough for the common guy who is playing PA to make his own unit for fun or something. Of course Uber is aiming to make the game modifiable so it is a good thing. I do hope the community keeps an open mind though, I know once the game became more available to the public after alpha things got a little weird.

I see this thread as a great example of why the current system is bad. If the devs are going to stick to the current system that they have, why not add this? It is practically the same thing.

As for my opinion, no way. This is just FA on a round map at this point.

I think we should think about it like "what would a human do to wipe out enemy on other planets and what should we do IF they are immune against asteroids" we would let our develop team spit out one powerful warmachine and development after an other and everyone would have more power than before. That an intergalactic war games technology "only" goes as far as an asteroid smash on other planets... and nothing else... -.- We need game enders with pros and cons... As an example the nukes (GE according to my opinion).. I think radioactive clouds would be cool after a detonation and they move around the planet and damage units and buildings. As more we use them as more dangerous would it be for us. Mhh and like this we could balance other gameenders too. This game is inspired from "total annihilation" and "supreme commander" and in this games exist Tech3, super duper crazy bigshot bots, commander upgrades and experimental units. We must not forget that sometime we will get the other factions...(Or I hope so)... and 3 to 4 faction with the same Asteroid game ender?? Not nice. We need more specialized units for every sort of tactic we would use in an intergalactic battle (without ships of course). I think the tactic part of the game comes to short... every time I play I feel *rush*rush*rush*I Have To Rush*... I have no time for tactics. I have to rush over the other players for not losing.

So yes I think T3, Experimental, more game enders, special units, specialized factions is a *really needed* in the game. ... and now all the guy who has no problems with the rushing stuff will say (maybe) "we dont need it" but at the beginning this game should be a realtime tactic strategy game and if the developer stop here with T2 and asteroid... its only a realtime wargame... not so much strategy. Until I can play my style without be forced to rush permanently its not my long term game. But I will see when the other factions will be out. So much potential and hopefully not be wasted.

So hopefully u could read this poor english text. Im really eager to read ur opinion.

Yes this is absolutely what I am trying to get at. I do see your point and its very similar to mine. I think the community needs to keep an open mind. I think that T3 isnt a bad thing and like ive stated so many times, it would be a huge investment to go into. I also do not like people complaining a lot about how the asteroid is "overpowered" what do you expect? its a freaken asteroid! What happened to the dinosaurs? lol. This feels necessary in the game because I see a lot of good ideas being thrown out due to some minor reasons. T3 can be balanced, I hold no doubt against it and I do not think that "Uber said they wouldnt do it" is a valid reason whatsoever.

Hey all, I figured since I'm already procrastinating from uni work I'd weigh in on something I felt I had a useful contribution to make on. Setting aside the volumes of writing already done on "why T3 won't be in PA"
I thought I'd throw in a couple of simple things that I think need addressing before anyone gets too excited.

Firstly, is a minor one which is the income, as it is right now, Uber have "really" (expertly and cleverly) solved the income problem that Sup Com had (in my eyes) with the basic and advanced income. A tier 3 income would mean you have to make a whole new graphic/animation/mechanic around adding a t3 extractor. t3 powergen wouldn't be too hard.

Secondly is the simple issue of "balance". While the T3 concept is a nice one, PA is developed with orbital and other planets in mind. I found the mix of T1-T2-T3 hard enough to figure out and understand when I only had to worry about 1k unit limit in FA and flat planets and no orbital or moons or asteroids.

You could say T3 "is" the orbital layer, since it is also a '3rd' technology. If you read a quote, I forget by who but it went something to the effect of adding more to a game must increase it's depth, not just complexity. That's a really poor paraphrase, but essentially the 2 problems that need to be addressed is how can T3 exist without making T1 completely redundant, and also how can you justify upgrading to t3, when everyone else has spend the exact same resources to migrate to another planet, colonise it, or to turn asteroids into interspace weapons and killed you. Ironically, at least some of what Killzone has brought up can be considered already thought of and added in by Uber, or will be added in. Just not under the label of T3. It's also not taken the exact conventional form people think of for the various elements.

This is where my friendliness will end. I'm all for seeing every single thought and idea people have, provided I have the time and I'm not a super busy game developer doing my best to make a game that's revolutionary from step 1 without the comfy budget from a publisher. "But" I do however hope people will consider for a moment before they blurt something out. For example why Uber chose to leave T3 out of the picture. Also to consider what's practical. Would you build Halley's on asteroids to create a hugr grid or wall, or launch them at incoming planets/moons/asteroids as a defence. Or would you simply build some big lasers or cannons that can fire from surface or orbit at incoming planets/moons/asteroids. Make sure your suggestions are not undermined by simpler solutions that achieve the same/similar result.

As a final note, to anyone who bothered reading my rant. I'll praise Killzone for bothering to provide a possible solution, rather than bring up his idea and expect someone else to figure out how it'll work. A question though, if you really want something larger scale, why not have orbital fabbers or advanced orbital fabbers which can make T1+t2 extractors simultaneously as one building, or rather that can do the work of land fabbers on a larger scale. Or can build land factories quicker than regular T2 vehicle Fabbers and go from there. Ultimately T3 represents more power, and more scale. Someone tell me why orbital technology can't fill that gap, without simply "copy pasting existing units and then adding more health+damage/build speed"

I really like your insight on this. Orbital could be a "T3" of some type. I think a lot of people do not like the idea of T3 because I think it did not go well in sup com 2 or 1? I have never played any of those previous games so I could not relate. However, I do see where they are coming from and I understand what people are trying to say, but we all need to know that PA is still in development and that is a huge advantage to everyone. That means it can be balanced, fixed and could actually work out really well. At various times PA had tanks that were OP compared to the bots and the bots were more OP than the tanks, but it was fixed due to community help. I don't see why we could not balance T3 in such a way. I see T3 of more of an option/risk to go to, plus it may as well as extend game time, because remember, systems will not always be this small when optimizations come out. Anyways, I appreciate your comment on this.

I really like your insight on this. Orbital could be a "T3" of some type. I think a lot of people do not like the idea of T3 because I think it did not go well in sup com 2 or 1? I have never played any of those previous games so I could not relate. However, I do see where they are coming from and I understand what people are trying to say, but we all need to know that PA is still in development and that is a huge advantage to everyone. That means it can be balanced, fixed and could actually work out really well. At various times PA had tanks that were OP compared to the bots and the bots were more OP than the tanks, but it was fixed due to community help. I don't see why we could not balance T3 in such a way. I see T3 of more of an option/risk to go to, plus it may as well as extend game time, because remember, systems will not always be this small when optimizations come out. Anyways, I appreciate your comment on this.

P.S. I don't know why it double posted.