Supports post DLC:

It's in our blog:

http://www.uberent.com/blog/2008/12/a-balancing-act/

What a coincidence that link is in regards to the topic. I wanna say that it's ironic, but the internet english police will not let me.

Well, after playing through day 2, I realized I had to change my class endorsements and play style to keep up with the changes.

Formerly:
Gold - RoF
Silver - Armor
Bronze - Skill

Now:
Gold - Skill ( Helps to compensate for massive airstrike cooldown)
Silver - RoF ( A little slower heal/hurt rate then pre RoF update)
Bronze - Armor (To prevent being the assassin's whipping boy)

Seems Support's endorsements are more or less pre picked for me.
There were entire matches where I did not get Churros, mainly because of having to play it more defensively, and not being on the front lines where the bots were getting destroyed. So I cannot rely on the hope of Churros.

I threw out fewer air strikes, none to clear bot lanes. Some to kill pros, most to destroy turrets... when I had more then 1 stored up.

I got juice less times, which was expected. I got juice consistently when I held back and overhealed everything, playing defense, avoiding the front lines. I got killed often before getting juice when going to where the fighting was.

Support has become the worst lane pusher without his constant stream of air strikes. He's sort of in a weird place where he's no longer a front line fighter, can defend his base the same or worse then before, and can't really push lanes on his own. And he can't really kill anyone past 15 ft without his firebase, or sacrificing his now fewer air strikes.

Nah. You're just still in shock. Give it until the next DLC or so, then talk to the devs.

i only played postpatch support for about 2 hours in the very early hours after the dlc drop and i did get a tad bit frustrated with the air strike regen time. i also got used to it by the last hour and just understood that from now on it is only for turrets. i have other weapons for pros and if i die then i have the spawn timer to add to my save up to full 3 air strike. last ditch effort to save self.

i always used skill three for the increase in airstrikes and hacks I didn't think it was over powered then maybe little harshly regen lagged now. i know that with two cooperative supports, there was the potential for it to be used to completely keep a team pinned in base. since the update, airstrike is back to being a helpful thing from being a devistating violator. sucks that i cant get one every 15 or so seconds but oh well. This has made me think that if i play support its gotta be serious concentration time.

i never really use the h/h gun to overheal if there isn't something else to go do. i use it almost exclusively for bots and occasionally with pros. try using the h/h gun to kill off slims then just hurt the jack bots so that you get the minuscule money that comes from them dying. i usually try to stay at the middle of the map. as long as you keep the cushion space you should make some money -less than an assault maybe, but comeooooonnnn, comeooonnn you dont even have to aim with the h/h gun and if you are using it on bots you might as well be unharmed. the problem is that occasionally pros do come along with their bots to try and escort. this is why i usually try to keep my fire base close to where i'm hanging out, so it can at least give me something to deter and distract the pro so i can run away.

i got an average of 1 churro my first couple matches on lazer razer and spunky arena. one was a lucky steal from an assault i shotgunned and the others were just lucky bot drops, probably slims since i usually just run past them just pulling left trigger. it goes run,hurt gun slim bot, dead, rotate,next slim, slim bot dead, lock jack bot, run away until lock is off( or switch and grapple). i then will most likely turn up on the next group of bots, rinse and repeat.

Granted i will say i do die more than a guy who can heal himself should because i don't much care about my k/d and will throw myself in front of bullets for a more damage producing teammate to get a distraction kill. that's actually an okay tactic because as long as the person you are with takes out the enemy before you die you are fine, but it sucks when it fails. Bunny hops help(its a legit strat, only people who can't compensate get mad about it) As long as i have decent bot kills and turret builds and what not. honestly i feel okay with it.

it seems very hard to keep a fire base alive, was their hp dropped or are people just getting more adept at killing them? i used to just set it and forget it. let it be my forward offender while i stay in the base and heal stuff or let it sit hacked in my base to try to ward off bot attacks if they get too far in base. now it seems that it rarely stays alive if i have it on the front lines and leave it unattended.

man this post got long.

TLDR post abstract: air strikes are longer, but we must acknowledge the previous potential for abuse after advantage was gained(just like juice chaining got fixed, so did airstrike chaining). i think that they could be set pretty nicely at the very middle of the two. post and prepatch time split the difference in times. still no real complaint there, just adjust.

other stuff that i found useful tips for money woes is hurt gun slims and run.

firebases seem a little on the fragile side.

Ok so I actually played today and I love the new map.

That said I didnt have a problem with the support. I was never really a frontline solo support I always stuck with people and/or bots.


I still think they should add assist bonus to support healing someone who gets a kill. Even if it's only 10 or even 5 it's better then nothing.

All that said I wouldn't mind if the air strike charged just a little faster.

I have put in about 5 hours of support play since the patch.

Most rounds this is what I do as soon as it starts, in this order:

Upgrade hack to level 2.
Build a third rock-it turret, or longshot (depending on map) with leftover starting money and hack it.
Deploy firebase in a clever place
Start overhealing everyone/everything in my base

I then focus on getting to Hack 3, buying more rock-it turrets and hacking them. Unless my whole team is focused on bot farming I will start making lots of quick cash from the increased range.

Don't believe me? Make your first turret build a longshot and get it to 2.3, 3.3 asap, watch how fast you make money. This especially works beautifully on spunky cola.

I usually come out in the top 3 on my team just doing the above. It may not be as fun as base rushing with your airstrikes for some of you, but boohoo.

BTW, I NEVER upgrade airstrike anymore, unless I have extra money to blow (It's against my religion to buy juice).

BTW - I would LOVE to see future maps have neutral turret nubs in the middle of the map.

Suppose you're right. Maybe not the worst lane pusher. Probably 4th, right after the Sniper, Assassin, & Tank.

Also, did anyone time how long it took to get a level 2 & 3 Airstrike before the DLC? I am hoping gold skill recovery at least decreases cooldown to pre dlc times with no skill endorsement.

Having played some more since the patch, my initial impressions have been reinforced. The changes to the Support seem very reasonable (I say as a dedicated Support player). What I like most about them is that they encourage the support to take an actual support role (its right in the name, kids). Someone has to be the worst at lane pushing (and at various other tasks) and I don't seem a problem with the support being less effective than an armored death machine carrying a jet engine.

I really enjoy sticking around the base, working on defenses, and occaisionally striking out to help (from behind) with a push. Its a supporting role, if you will. I still end up with juice from time to time and get to run in and attack, but I am fine with my class not being the best at everything. That is why there are six classes. Not only that, its not an RPG; if I feel like being on the attack, I can play another class.

All around, excellent balance fixes. As Scathis said, it will ALWAYS be a shock when anything is changed; give it time.

I was being entirely sarcastic.

Id like to think that I play the support quite well, I've put lots of play time in post dlc, and I've gotten used to it. There's no shock factor. It just blows and makes little to no sense.

Unfortunately, I've removed a support from my custom classes and won't be playing the class unless I'm feeling like I want to be a base-camping turret-hugger. What was a very versatile and fun class to play became blandly one-note.

I don't need to play for several weeks to know that support is no longer fun or able to be aggressive. Several weeks just means to me that most people will become complacent and less apt to say anything and we can all move on, nothing to see here.

It's a horrible change. I had problems leaving the base because I had no firepower available to me to either secure my advance or protect a retreat. So, back to the base, overhealing turrets and waiting forever for freakin' airstrike to recharge. And I run skill recharge gold, always have, and it's still painfully slow. When a change to a class profoundly affects playstyle, then it's broke.

At least the change has freed up a custom class spot so I can have two different tank builds now. So, there's that. /sarcasm.

I have no problem being an offensive Support player.

Ah, I thought you had turned Benedict Arnold on me there for a second. :lol:

But yeah, Support needs something to compensate for his new lack of defense.
Be that:
Faster speed
More money from healing
Assists from healing pros that get kills
Assists from hacked turrets
New or better grapple

Those two should have been in the game from the beginning. I can see Uber looking at this hard for the next DLC.

But really, could all the doom and gloom in this thread is just maybe be a bit overreaction? They took ONE skill and made it recharge slower. And now the Support is unplayable? Really?

Well after another week it's not a good change imho. It's almost easier to be aggressive 'cause you have to watch waaaaay to many gunners out damage a turret while I heal it (using gold rof, silver skill) and have 0 way to chase them off for 30 seconds to a minute at a time. Even then I get one chance to make them shift over slightly before they continue the slaughter and I wait another 30-60. Before the nerf I could at least interrupt them enough to make it a challenge, now I feel like I should just say 'eff it' and go push the other side. Pre-nerf I could pinpoint land those suckers, now I get them so rarely I'm out of practice making it a double whammy. And I do farm churros. meh :cry:

I've played a lot of Support post-DLC and the airstrike recovery hasn't bothered me all that much. I don't even have skill recovery on my Support build and I still manage to do fine.

Well, my shock has officially worn off. Support can't really venture out on his own anymore like he used to. He needs to stay back, overheal all turrets, overheal all bots. If he does go to the front lines he needs to be overhealing a class that can do the offensive for both of them. I wouldn't have a problem with this except that already been said: You get no money for overhealing. And I'm not counting the pittance the game hands you for healing. Without assist money from overhealing pros and hacked turrets, he's not going to get better. In a game where cash is king, Support is the pauper.

Without airstrikes to clear bot lanes, he's not much better then the gunner or assault at pushing lanes, he does it, but dreadfully slow even with the bot boost aura, giving the enemy time to see him and make him run away with his tail between his legs. Saving those air strikes for the enemy turrets waiting around the corner. And again, churros are never a guarantee so you can't rely on them. Air strike was Support's long range weapon, mainly used to bring down turrets and defend himself, without them, he cannot take a turret down unless he has juice or hacks his firebase to shoot at the turret. So it is an eternal struggle, take down turrets, defend yourself, or push lanes and you may only choose one, because you won't have enough time for another.

Having said that, I can still kick *** with the Support, but only if I have juice or the enemy wondered into my base or near my firebase. It's just not as fun as he used to be.

Airstrikes were never much of a problem imo

I expected to see shotgun and or firebase nerfs

You know...the parts of the support that are actually a little unbalanced

Notice the only people that complain about Support are those that play Assassin all the time? Hey, Assassins, Supports are not the easy prey you think they are...not for you anyways. Everyone else, sure. They have a shotgun and are almost always hugging their FB. This does not bode well for you. They are the anti-Assassin class, get used to it and be aware of your enviroment. I nominate Assassins as the whiniest class in the game. Most of you are good enough at the game to know better...so stop campaigning to further nerf the weakest class just because he's your natural enemy in the game.

Oh, and mashing your Cloak button during an assassination because the guy's FB is right next to you isn't going to do squat. Hit damage keeps you momentarily visible. If you're not taking damage its not going to shoot you,.. so cut those threads as well. Don't expose yourself where you shouldn't and everything will be ok (just ask peewee herman).

It's been over a week and I still hate the support nerfs. Unless I'm on spunky, the cash just isn't there.

With reduced airstrikes, I cant get money from killing pros/bots/turrets as often. Without being able to juice as easily/often, I also can't get money from pros/turrets. It's frustrating because I think he is the funnest class to play. :cry: