Super Units in PA?

I think a mod should lock this topic. It hasn't been on topic for at least 4 pages.

We started with questions about balance and how to have super units that work with PAs design goal of no obsolete units at any tier. That's gone now. It has become toxic to the community and is no longer providing us a meaningful dialog.

so then don't use them, who cares? Just don't stop me from using them. Trying to get you guys to accept megabots is like getting the bible belt to allow gay marriages. So offended even though you claim to have no stake in it...

Its much different then that, it more like overdecorating a cake.

I have no interest in cheap no brainer units in this game at all
So yes i object to you being able to use them as well ...

I do think super units would fit well with this game. In PA you can really scale up your economy, so why shouldn't you have some very expensive units that could properly lead your armies. It makes more sense than simply adding another 200 tanks.

What units do you think off?

Well Nukes are already in the game so your argument is invalid. Until you start pushing for nukes to be removed (or really, all game enders) then you are a hypocrite

nukes that can be easily be stopped by antinukes are more reason to think about of building or not than a robot that when it is finished does its damage no matter what .. aside from that nukes and botbombs are one off weapons .. the krogoth isnt .. why should i build anything else when i have a superpowerfull juggernaughtnukebeast that eats armies even before breakfast and if isnt stopped by hundred wings of aircraft
Continues to go on a rampage and still take a crap on you blowing half your base up ...

Again, Iron, that's not a fair statement. Many of us agree that nukes need a major overhaul. We don't all agree on what that change should be, but I can't think of many posts arguing that nukes are perfect just like they are now.

My problem with nukes is their current balance allows them to work as a pretty direct game ender. I think anti-nuke should be so accessible that nukes become a situational weapon instead of a boolean economic victory (I spent more on nukes than you spent on anti-nuke == I win) that can also double as a defense against KEWs.


My problem with "megabots" is very similar. I don't want to see a single super might unit that can dominate the late game. I love heavy units. I think a mobile factory (slow, unarmed, and terribly inefficient) is a good candidate, wither it rolls or is orbital, I think it could still work. I think any heavy/super unit that doesn't overlap with our current roster is a great option. I want to see some big money sinks for the late game, but I don't think they should ever be able to replace our existing ground roster.

PA has a design philosophy that T2 should not replace T1. This has some holes in it today, but is still being developed, and I think Uber will deliver. It's my hope that T3, T4, super, experimental, mega, etc never replaces any existing unit.

Because as stated multiple times in the this thread....and every other similar thread, krogoth like units have obvious and effective counters, and less binary (the prominent complaint with nukes) ones at. So...what is your problem explicitly? As for the we don't need a nother com-nuke statement someone made earlier in the thread (or was that the mega-bot thread?)...with something as slow and lumbering as a krogoth with obvious counters (fast close range hi-rof units) this would be a liability to the user not the base its rumbling towards.

incidentally, if it didn't have anti-missile tech it would probably be nearly dead (more likely long dead) by the time it reached a base on account of catapults anyway.

Man! where the **** to I start?

Are you trying to say that nukes are a riskier investment? Because they arn't You build more of them until you win with them. Just the 1 unit (nuke launcher) is all you need

Nuke launcher is around until you kill it

I have literally won half a dozen games by not building armies and building nuke launcher instead. There is 0 ******* difference. What eats armies faster than a nuke? It would have to be a megabot that launches ******* nukes...

Cute! Nukes do it in 1 shot. Oh they have defense? 5 shots at once. all the same unit, it's just how many you have. What the **** is the difference between that and your version of a megabot? Ground defenses would be MORE useful than the anti-nukes because at least they don't need ammo...

Nukes are gameenders if you dont protect your comm
They are also gameenders if you clump up your base and focus your resources on one place .. i'm not sure if they need an complete overhaul but im not against a rebalance that doesnt turn nukewarfare into a missile slugfest ...

@iron420 so if there is zero difference between a nuke and a megabot as you say .. then why do we even need the megabot like at all

Clearly you must just be talking about FFAs there. No way that could ever happen in a real game.

Iron, bro, dude.... calm down. It's a dialog. He doesn't agree. Don't let yourself loose your cool over it.

I actually do agree with your assessment of the problem, but not your solution. It wasn't too long ago we had a heated thread all about nukes and anti-nukes. If this is the debate your looking for lets do some thread necromancy and bring it back. We can hammer it out there and I bet some great thoughts can be had.

The problem with mega-bots looks the same, but they have a different solution. Lets keep these debates separate because they are separate issues. We can have perfectly balanced mega units without fixing the current nuke play... and vice-versa. I'd like to see both fixed, but bringing both topics at once, especially with a temper is only going to make that more difficult.

What should a megabot even do what no other unit doesnt .. what shall make such a megaunit that special and intresting?

I like the ideas for mobile factories, mega transports, mobile anti-nuke, mobile umbrella, Drone Host, orbital AA, heavily armored AoE reclaiming unit, Anti-Missile . I'm certain those aren't all the roles one could fill.
Pick a layer and two roles.. it works.

An orbital cruiser that can shoot down nukes and launches AA drones to clear enemy aircraft would enable invasions but wouldn't do the invading itself.

A rolling factory (fatboy with no guns) that reclaims everything around itself could siege an enemy base nicely by spamming our current units, but wouldn't destroy any commanders by itself.

A huge naval ship with anti-nuke and umbrella capabilities would help protect a navy while your other ships siege the enemy shore.


The only role I absolutely do NOT want is anything that damages ground units directly. If it's a super unit that hits ground units it is endangering the role of every other unit.


EDIT. Bad copy paste.

While there are good ideas there are some that doesnt have to be mega but maybe just bigger than average like the mobile anti nuke or mobile anti orbital .. generaly i find those to be neccesary be they mobile or naval
However I personaly am not so keen on mobile factories or orbital drone carriers honestly

I'm just pointing out things that *could* be done instead of laughing while you walk through enemy defenses and do a little dance on top of the enemy commander.

edit: typed "walk" twice instead of "while".

Woulnt mind a hyper vacoumunit ...*que spaceballs*
So how bout that kind of megabot (instead of rolling factory).. galactic collosus style bot without Deathray and tracktorbeamarms but instead heavy reclaimarms, big tough and annoying s*cker ... i think that has been mentioned a couple times as well ? But that would be realy a fununit i think ..

So?

FFAs are (arguably more so) real games. You are literally the only person I've seen with a contrary opinion. God que up some SC2 matches if you love your little micro, zoomed in 1v1s so much cause this isn't your type of game clearly

My solution is to give megabots a 1st pass at balance like we gave nukes. My whole point is nukes have the same problems as people claim megabots have but we are giving nukes a chance and not Megabots. Put them in the game and consider some balance for them. We are doing it for nukes, why not Megabots?

"lets do some thread necromancy and bring it back. " I made up my mind in the car ride home to do exactly that