Super Units in PA?

why not have the base cost of mega-bot scale depending on how many you have, so say that the 1st mega-bot costs 10,000 metal then the 2nd mega-bot would cost 20,000 metal this could help to limit spamming of mega-bots because it isn't cost effective to create more than 1 mega-bot.

Un-intuative, arbitrary and violates the WYSIWYG policy, no thanks.

Mike

My two cents:

Megabots without guns. Or at least, megabots which cannot fight armies.

That could mean shield-bots (anti-air/arty only, we don't want a supcom repeat), Umbrella bots, artillery bots, submersible sea-floor transport bots.... Any and every cool, game-expanding option you can make huge, put on legs, and walk through a teleporter EXCEPT for "bigger guns".

That's all I have on the matter.

These are the ones that make me sit down and think all the way through. They're not without problems, but they have potential.

After all, if you squint your eyes and look at it from a funny angle, the comet-rocket looks like a single-use-megabot-without-guns.

What an interesting thread. The Debate constantly rages for this "Mega Unit". (and nukes as well? whats going on here)

I feel people fear what it represents and the stats that define its function.

I'm not against a large sized unit. I am against a Large sized unit with large sized guns and large sized HP which basically states the end game. Which this game isn't about.

A large sized unit that has large drawbacks... That is a unit I can get behind. I don't like progressively better units, I like units that require your T1 units to make the Specialists perform.

I can get behind a mega unit like that.

these are intended to be anti-structure, re various quotes from devs.... not anti-blob specifically, and in the case of artillery rely entirely on that blob staying stock still, at least once things are balanced better one assumes this to be case. A riot/mega bot is a counter that doesn't have that limitation, but has other serious drawbacks instead.

A mega-vacuum is certainly an idea i can get behind, but I do like my large many gunned units, i in-vision a riot control unit to have several guns that can engage several units at once, but focus poorly.

Just because they are intended to have a specific role doesnt mean they cant serve for some other role temporerly as well ... t2 bombers especialy with their carpedbombing ability are just ideal to wipe unitblobs clean and they are very efficient at that artilery while maybe less accurate is a choice simply because of its aoe .. everything that has well aoe might as well be used against larger armies

Riotcontrol that focuses poorly? Why would you want something half arsed ..
A unit that isnt good at something just isnt a good unit

Don't Nukes kinda-of invalidate armies though? Don't planet engines do that as well? I'm starting to think that maybe a very powerful ground unit megabot might just fit into the super-weapon category as is. When it takes so long and so much eco to get shouldn't it be worth it? Especially if it requires control of territory like the planet crashing (ie getting control of a Metal planet)...

It doesnt .... why? Most mobile units are fast enough to get away from nukes nukes are totaly antibase for their primary role even though you can use them defensivly ... they are THE wake up call to the enemy
Of saying you didnt have attacked me in a while and you shall be punished for that
To me nukes are the reason that ensures your opponent either starts moving or he gets annihilated no matter if antinuke or not antinukes dont safe you ... attack was and is always the best defense...
the biggest difference between a nuke and any mobile unit is you force the enemy to come to you ... armies need to get to the enemy ... a nukelauncher doesnt ... to me that is what long range gameplay is about that is also why i dont want to many defenses against it
The same thing goes for asteroids be they kew's or rockships
i want to have a symbol that says come to me or you will be annihilated

The difference between a nuke and a assualtmegabot is that because nukes are one off weapons they have a higher risk attached to them that they dont deal the damage where you want them to ... with megabots you generaly cant do much wrong ... that is the main reason why such bots would be the saver bet ... its a no brainer

Nukes are currently a no brainer too right now. If it doesn't work the 1st time it will eventually and armies have literally no defense against it. It's not hard to lead your shot on a big blob of units, they have maybe 20 seconds to get out of the way...

An assault megabot has lots of things that can defend against it, and none of those defenses have ammo like the anti-nuke launcher. If an epic tutle has a solid base, how do you deal with the nuke launcher as you say is required? Wouldn't an assault megabot fill that role? Breaking a turtle base (filled with nuke launchers)? Sure, I need to "come to" the nuker, so give me something I can throw at him effectively...

the general reason why people consider nukes an issue is because they consider them a unit ... but the thing is they arent ... they arent mercys
They are missilies,bullets beamshots so to speak ... to get rid of being nuked is to get rid of the nukelauncher ... you may not have much to destroy the nuke but you have a ton of units to go to destroy the launcher ...
You could aswell just replace the nukelauncher with with interplanetary artillery .... what would be there to stop the constand barrage of incomming shels .... PD's and flak? Having a interception snowballfight?
That sounds very efficient .... not ...

What does an army NOT do what a megabot does? .... answer me that one

As I said before:

• slower degradation of power
• intimidation factor
• Less micro intensive
• [BONUS] less radar footprint (better for sneak attacks)
• [Bonus] Less frail (non-paper unit good for taking some hits and tanking fire if supported with combat fabbers)

The mega-bot make's you chose between the big base smashing mega-bot and the swarm of smaller units on the other side of your base overwhelming your defenses.

So better in every way then any other single mobile unit .... ... which does make this unit a no brainer ... because why shouldnt you build more of those if you have the eco for it instead of those "paper"units .... you are totaly invalidating those units that way ...

Because mega-bots should be so ridiculously expensive that they require an endgame economy to be constructed on a reasonable timetable without completely stalling said economy and the mega-bot would also constantly drain power to function like the current teleporters but on a much larger scale.

Game enders tend to do that...

Now a very high running energycost would be something i would accept as having to ensure that it weapons still do function .... otherwise its just a sitting duck ....

See? there's nothing wrong with the concept of an "Uber" bot, there are ways to include them that make everyone happy Anyway who says they can't work just doesn't like them. That's fine, just don't get in the way of people who do

The best way to implement them is to have them follow the same rules as normal units.

And I don't know of any reason to have a huge unit over a group of smaller units other then to show off.

As even with the ideas of yours:

The slower degradation of power still seems really weird to me, but it's ok with smaller units to work at 100% efficiency till dead because they don't last as long. But with a larger unit, being 99% should have SOME effect, especially considering the size.

The radar footprint is a nice point, although it could be cool to have unit blobs sort of stack up into a larger single icon when close together, making long range radar kinda shaky.

And the frailty, well is up to balance, personally id like most units like tanks to have a very high HP to DPS ratio, so they have to fight it out more then bots.

Micro....ehh, moving a squad of units like one unit is really easy, so I don't really count that point.

Intimidation factor as far as I am concerned is a point against them, as making other players fear me makes my game harder if they feel the end is upon them.


However consider this unit: http://totalannihilation.wikia.com/wiki/Penetrator and the structure version: http://totalannihilation.wikia.com/wiki/Annihilator

As being units, bigger then most that are very much balanced for the effect they provide.

High damage, long range, pinpoint accuracy, massive power drain, slow firing rate, the mobile version is relatively un-armored, the static version obviously cannot move, both are expensive.

And most importantly, both are very hard to use exclusively.

Create you mega bots like that, like units, and I'll be inclined to like them more.

I LOVED the Annihilator. My TA base defense was usually a wall of defenders, then a pair of guardians, toasters and Annihilators at each "gate". So much fun! The only thing more fun was crushing bases like that with Phoenixs and krogoths!