Super Units as Exo-suit

Do you... do you even realize just how POWERFUL some of the suggested Comm abilities are? Near total invisibility? Unlimited regenerating health? An instant kill shot? An instant kill shot cranked up to apocalyptic scale? The ability to instantly escape ANY catastrophe? Holy ****. A Commander like that would be practically unstoppable. Yet it's done in a way that's allowed to scale smoothly, and allows clear and targetable weaknesses to defeat one.

I don't know where the idea came from that Commanders were supposed to be pitiful and weak. There's no shortage of ways to make them completely badass, and they don't need an overcompensating suit to do it.

Why didn't you mention abilities earlier then? I had no clue that was your objection until now. You're right, we are to a degree waiting on abilities to come to see if we even need something like this. I don't think abilities will defacto render exo suits useless, but time will tell.

Like the fact that you're in a big-***, probably kind of slow suit far from any means to escape large scale strategic weapons?

I think an Exo-Suit for the commander as a super unit (beyond the mega bot too I might add) is an interesting direction to investigate. It could be something to try in Alpha or Beta, with no promise of it entering the game proper.

It gives the endgame a twist and becomes an interesting super weapon, as much so as rocket powered asteroids even.

Do you risk everything and send your one and only commander in to battle in an exosuit, knowing you might lose yourself the game if he's overwhelmed?

If one commander goes hunting after another in an exo, he's going to attract every nuke in the game and draw the attention of entire armies. In a 8 player FFA it needs to be the kind of thing which forms temporary truces between everyone else so the problem can be dealt with.

If this idea is pursued obviously balance is a nightmare, but ti does eliminate super unit spam like SupCom had.

If we were to get an Exo-Suit it would need to be:

Expensive. Just as expensive as a rocket powered asteroid if not more, maybe a little less effective. And super dooper slow to build. And the commander should be incapacitated while it his built around him. Leaving him vulnerable and static for an awful amount of time.

Durable. Able to take a nuke or two, and then perhaps only capable of operating at reduced capacity. It would be fun to see it walk out of a multiple nuclear or kinetic strike and still be gunning.

Powerful. It has to flatten armies to same degree asteroids can. Players need to worry about taking it down as fast as possible, and immediately work together so they can combat it effectively.

Oneshot. If someone goes down this pathway, and they fail, that is it. Once wired in always wired in no escape.

Dangerous. When it dies it should still be a threat. A commander would need to use his army to pin it down while he gets away, because when that reactor goes critical, it should be enough to crack a planet.

Hah, if something like this makes it into the game you'll all be begging for random natural disasters... just for the chance of the earth to open up and swallow it whole.

I'm gonna throw a wrench in this whole conversation.

I believe it was said during one of the video streams that you might even be able to produce more commanders. By Mavor.

This means:
The commander is not strictly a liability.
The commander can be used for offense because, oh snap, you have another one.
You can still play cat and mouse with one or more of them if you wish.

Let the flame party continue, but please include all that we know about the game if you are going to fling wild accusations about "ruining the tone" when the tone may in fact be different than what you are remembering about an old game. This is a new game, there will be a new tone, a new setting, a new lore, and hell you may not like it. But please, remember that this is a new game.

I doubt Mavor mentioned that in the context of regular 'ranked' style matches.

There are certainly situations like in a GW or a co-op game where it could work.

Mike

I don't understand how this isn't just an in-game upgrade masquerading under another name, which they already said would not be an aspect of the game.

Besides, isn't this just a variation on the MOBA concept?

You might slightly manage waves of units, but ultimately all of the action is taking place between your central characters.

I like the idea of exo-suits, and I like the idea of high tech units, I'm not a big fan of "super units" though. I like high tech to mean extra versatile, not "ridiculously enormous and invincible"

Because they don't simply function as an upgrade or a MOBA. There are (significant) drawbacks to placing your commander in a suit, and we aren't asking for the abilities you see in a MOBA. Your commander would naturally be important to pay attention to, but not to the degree that you ignore everything else.

xcupx brings up probably the best point so far:

What happens here is the suit is split up into 4 expenses. The first two investments are the separate pieces of infrastructure needed to build Commanders, and the gantry to build super bots(they might be the same, but it's an expense either way). The other two price tags are the separate costs of getting a new Comm suit and an empty super bot.

What does it do? For starters, you already begin the game with half the components for the super suit. One Commander means one pilot, and you didn't even need to get a Comm gantry up.

With that being said, is it even possible to balance the price tag around this? The first suit comes at a MASSIVE discount. The first one is automatically going to be the best one, a huge game changer no matter how it's balanced. It's downhill after that, because you need full Comm production to fill more suits. In a multiplayer game, every extra starting Comm on the teams will be a potential discounted super bot on the field. That's going to be crazy.

It's a pretty bad idea to have 2 price tags on a single unit. Be prepared for headaches unless something more is done for the suit. For example, if enemy players can hijack your production and steal the suit for their own, it'd be pretty damn sweet. (Protip: Don't leave the keys inside your gigantic power armor.) Or let transports abduct enemy commanders out of their suit. Hehe.

Knee-jerk reaction much? MOBA has nothing on what a Commander can be given. Half of those abilities would be completely banned or impossible to create, and that's just going with the abilities from TA! Honestly, if it wasn't for the sheer volley of cooincedence, down to Uber independently deciding their "2 thingy" plan for Commanders, there wouldn't even be a MOBA connection.

No wait. That's not true. Opposing heroes amidst battling hordes of mobs? Total Annihilation did it first!

It's trivial. Balance for the massively discounted cost and then the non-first ones suck for cost, but we don't care as much because the point wasn't to make it spammable ;p

? He mentioned MOBA in the context of the suit actively giving the commander abilities/becoming your only focus. Not just commanders having abilities.

What gantry?
OP said t2 factory size is the limiting factor for this bot.

Neutrino* but yes.

Well damn my memory then. But concept was right.

I personally don't think putting the commander into a suit is a very constructive idea. Leave super units as a separate entity.

The job of a commander isn't to charge headlong into battle and risk death, and as your avatar its role is to oversee the overall, grand strategy of the battle.

If PA's predecessors are anything to take an example of, the commander unit is already an exo-suit for a pilot.

Also, its arguably easier to protect your commander simply by having it harder for enemies to distinguish in your base, well-protected under shield generators and base defences rather than making it a huge bullseye in a large 'exosuit' running about the front lines.

Many people might say its a new game and all that, but PA is supposed to be a spiritual successor to TA and SupCom, both of which provide a solid foundation for unit interactions and mechanics.

Thanks fo the laugh It is exactly what i was thinking...units trump commander...suited commander trump units...small moon/asteroid trumbs commander + planet, hehe

I like the idea of the ecstasy however the commander should not be the one wearing the suit perhaps the idea may work for a particular unit where the cap of said "unit/suit" would be 1... I say this topic is worthy of discussion because I would like to see an implementation of a commander exoskeleton..... provided... Suit doesn't detract from commander individuality... Multiple suit types availible that may enhance a commanders specs in a certain area.. Building, offense, defense etc, suit should be expensive but worth it in a price to benefit comparison..

The developers say that each commander type ( theta, alpha, progenitor etc...)
Will have abilities drawn from a pool of availible abilities.. Two theta commanders would have the same ability set.. This gives a player commander an immidiate differentiation between other commander types, I believe a suit adds the ability to adjust their commander more to their play style.. I agree with knight in that this should not increase everything and make the commander damage thresholds higher but instead alow a player to focus.. Perhaps the construction of a suit should be limited to one thus really allowing you to customize each match to not only your preferred strategy but what you think may counter the enemies strategy.. The balance would be innately present.. You go for some construction based suit early allowing you to build faster an develop quicker but you leave yourself open to get attacked by a commander assisted army wielding some offensive suit which will increase commander damage out put.... Say you go for the damage output suit early then you will find perhaps that your enemies base can't be commander cracked.. Because they went for a defensive based suit..

I apologize about the rant however this concept if changed from allowing people to make commander king Kriptor bots to allowing a player to focus their commander to their preferred playing style then I would be completely behind it.

No matter the choice, suit or none, a theta, alpha or progenitor etc commander must be unique enough to see not only what base commander your going against but what commander focus they are using..

If there is very flexible unit like this there is no reason to be there are large number of unit which alternation of unit upgrade and other stuff. Since the various units with specific role is core concept, this type of unit would not that good in PA.

Explain? We never asked for a flexible suit. Just a suit that the commander could power and charge into combat with.

I am sorry for misunderstanding the topic, I strongly agree that commander should be more useful in late game.
I would agree if the Exo-suit (I would like to say permanent fortification, instead) provide permanent dramatic improvement on armor and weaponry but take mobility (Make him big and slow, no hide and no escape).
I mean, Alter the commander from a unit to the moving fortress. Enemies will know where is the commander exactly so they can assassinate him with extreme firepower.

Which makes him no more viable late game at all.