Super Units as Exo-suit

Oh... so your idea is vital now?
your poll seems to suggest otherwise.

We need something to open up commander use towards later stages, and you've made it clear no such change is acceptable. That tone you speak of would actively stifle any changes to that end. And in a game whose main selling point is gameplay...

And your tone comes off as simultaneously insulting while missing the point =/

Fixed.

There is just as much 'use' of the Commander in late game as there is mid game, you just happen to find it boring it seems.

Mike

You are correct. I don't find that my commander serving the purpose of "engineer that I lose the game if it dies" is very interesting.

I find the Commander as "My personal representation on the battlefield" very interesting. I enjoy the feeling of "myself" becoming outclassed by the horrors of war.

You trumpet on about Gameplay.
I'll keep playing my blues for Tone.

Great thing is, we're both wrong to focus on just one aspect.

But I like my Blues...

Didn't this conversation happen like... two months ago?

Anyway, have some meat and lots of fluff.

TLDR: Stop trying to solve commander problems with numbers. It's not going to work. Comm play is as much a lore issue as it is a balance issue and a game design choice.

The simple fact is that Comms are single units that exist in a galaxy of robot hordes, flying asteroids and exploding worlds. They have a LOT of things to worry about. Their design NEEDS to reflect what they have to deal with, otherwise they'd be a pretty lousy "ultimate weapon" of war.

Seriously, why're you so anal about this. The whole point of the commander isn't to be some stupid little super unit to go and roflstomp everyone, it's supposed to be the unit where when someone has a giant solar-spanning army, you kill it and they lose. In your scenario, this unit would be storming bases, which is A) Stupid, as this is your king B) You can't kinetically bomb him, because you'd kill yourself and C) There's already a giant army surrounding him.

The point of the commander is supposed to be the fuel tank of a giant tank; He supplys the machine, and if you shoot it everything explodes and dies horribly. Just imagine the fuel tank shooting at you in an exo-suit and being controlled by an 11-year-old who doesn't get the commander is your king instead of your silly queen (chess analogy)

Starcraft 2.

*raises eyebrows* Okay folks, everyone take a breather. Relax, have some comfort food and a warm drink, and maybe we can start this conversation over again, with a bit less hyperbole and rhetoric this time. *flashes a grin*

Now, much of the recent conversation has wandered away from hypothesizing how this mechanic could make the game more fun for everyone and onto speculating on the worst possible outcomes if it is or isn't implemented. *shakes head* We don't need to debate how this mechanic is necessary or could be done badly. Nothing is necessary, and anything can be done badly. It's Uber's job to dodge those bullets, and they're better qualified for it than most.

This topic is to explore the best possible implementation of this mechanic until we find some common ground, and then decide if it will add something of value to the game. *warm smile* Try to discard the preconceptions for a bit and consider all of the possibilities.

Joefesok *nod*, Knight *nod*, Nanolathe *nod*, none of you seem to have even given the idea respectful consideration, simply because, at first glance, the mechanic seems counter-intuitive to your playstyle, when that isn't necessarily true.

Please consider this: There is already a commander exo-suit which is confirmed in-game which is ideally suited to the cat-and-mouse-style play you are very fond of. *taps a screen* It looks like this:


Your commander gets inside it, and becomes much, much harder to kill. The defensive option. *winks*

I think it would be worthwhile to add an offensive option to compete with this. To let the more aggressive players to take the riskier road of fielding their commander in battle, letting them enjoy using the D-gun and other combat commander skills. And as the offensive option, it probably should be very risky, although we obviously don't have enough information to say how risky it should be, precisely.

That said, any offensive option which looks clearly superior to defensively sending your commander into space is obviously too powerful. I doubt anyone seriously discussing this idea wants to eliminate playing defensively with the commander as a viable option. *smiles* Hiding the commander and playing defensively should always be a good strategy, but I really don't see how it helps the game to make it the only strategy; the game will have far more longevity if players can take many different approaches to solving the same problem, and have fun doing it.

If an offensive option is added, it should be one which makes commanders like Rcix's say, *hunches over the desk and bangs a fist on the surface* "Finally! I no longer need to hide behind my armies like a coward! I may die this day, but if I fall, I shall fall in battle!"

While the exact same option should make commanders like Nanolathe say, *sits upright and takes a formal, dignified pose* "If I were going to build myself a giant coffin, I'd rather it look a bit more tasteful. Besides, I could probably contribute far more to the war effort elsewhere. No need to deliver myself into the enemy's hands."

If both sides explore the idea of a compromise thoroughly, then decide that such a compromise does not exist, then that's okay and we can drop it. *nodnod* But we should at least try to find common ground before claiming that it's impossible.

*holds arms open* Deal?

I like you sethna.

I like the cut of your jib.

perfect pitch sethna

agree with everything you have said

^

Now that im not exploding in a pile of exosuit goo, much more chill. And not sure if you could sell it better than you just did.

But moving off planet is far from being only a defensive action.

Mike

Of course nothing is as black and white as that.

Just saw this:

You sir made a new sig quote for me!

True. Which means, either the offensive option is even more risky than it would otherwise be (as it stops space expansion while in use), or would slow space expansion, as engineers are sent in place of the commander. This depends on whether it's possible to start a new off-world base with engineers alone.

Part of the basic premise of the commander exo-suit idea is that it cannot be sent into space. That's part of the trade-off.

Whether or not the commander could eject at will or only in certain places (such as at a T2 bot factory), would further change the risks involved in using one.

I would like to see any offensive exo-suit focus on increasing damage a lot and vulnerability to being sniped some (NOT general toughness). So you're not afraid to send it into battle and it won't get picked off randomly, but you had better be damn sure you can win that fight without them taking out your commander.

I also like the idea of an engineering exosuit which offers maybe one specific kind of snipe protection like antiair, and then a big engineering gain. Not sure how it would jive with the whole concept though.

But you get all the benefits of the exosuit with few to no downsides(even a few extra benefits) just by using regular units to guard your commander.

I guess that's more-so the core of why I don't like the Exosuit idea, it's redundant.

Mike

You could say that about anything knight.

I am surprised that this is your reason.

But remember, it's an extension of the super units idea. It would do what any super unit is proposed to do: offer a way for you to obtain superior combat efficiency at the cost of deployment flexibility. Something you might choose if your enemy doesn't have available raiding forces and put some meaty tanks in front while your perma-active Uber Cannon rips them to shreds. Maybe not the most viable, but put in for fun.

Also to consider: it's globally announced and there is a global cap of one. So its a gamechanging piece which everyone gets to hear about so they can react ("Detected abnormal emissions from enemy Commander!!" or something). Just an idea though.