Suggestion: Ice Traps, Skill Drain, and Scramblers

Assassin - None
Assault - Bomb (Easy), Grenade Launcher (Hard)
Gunner - Mortar Launcher
Sniper - Flak, I'm not certain, but I believe that only the level 3 flak will set them off.
Support - Airstrike
Tank - Product Grenade

All correct.

I wonder if you have any idea how arrogant you sound when you write that. Especially after jumping down my throat (while dodging a question) about how you "expected better" of me for my comments about the sniper's grapple being an IWIN button. Just say you don't agree with him (or engage him), don't tell him he needs better opinions just because they don't conform with yours.

I don't know how this is relevant. Even if you establish this as a "theme", how does it change the balance discussion? Or how would deviating from this "theme" negatively effect game balance? It might provide a little insight, but tells me nothing other than "well other things operate this way."

I'm not really sure how this argument as a whole is not making any headway, other than you disagreeing with me, and telling people to get better opinions.

I don't like the proposed nerf because it introduces too much of a luck variable into the equation, and the sniper has no way of telling which skill is drained and what is still active. Such a nerf would ONLY make him weaker, not nerf his overwhelmingly strongest asset (skill drain and snaring ice traps) and offset it by buffing his overwhelmingly weakest asset (scramblers, which are practically useless). Your "compromise" nerfs him more than mine would.

Every Nerf I have ever suggested for the sniper has always been counter balanced by a buff or reworking of a function to compensate for it.

Apparently you have taken this argument to personal dislike. It's good for you to get that worked up over an argument about one aspect of the sniper and how someone disagrees with you. I'm sorry if I seem condescending to certain people who post on here, but when someone comes in and states opinion as fact and provides no argument for that opinion whatsoever, I tend to want to make them feel stupid. Probably not the best reaction by me either, but hey, we all have our flaws.

About the traps. How can something that needs to be set off by other pros or bots be his strongest asset (OP in your mind, I assume). Something that you can avoid simply by looking at the ground and jumping over it does not sound OP to me at all. You pointed out that you can halt pushes with bots by freezing them, which could ensnare pros surrounding those bots. Well, that requires pros to be pushing right along next to the bots, which no one should be doing anyways, given how the AoE of the rifle works. You may disagree, but I think when you are pushing with bots, you do not want to be right next to them anyways.

Maybe we should establish some sort of community play test group, which can test under controlled conditions to determine if things are OP. Probably unrealistic, and it might not even change anyones mind or anything. But considering most people do not seem to trust Uber's playtesting, and most people do not trust individual opinions that are not their own, this might give some objective information so that we can better discuss how things might be improved or changed.

Hudson, I get the feeling you're trying to slowly destroy my class. I love my iwin button and ice traps of inevitable death.

He isn't the only one! :lol:

As much as I love to play sniper...it's just too much win rolled into one package.

I intend for this to be my last post on this subject. (Not the "last word" or "the truth" or whatever.)

Community balance discussions are common in most online games I frequent and are even usually encouraged by the game company. Perception of balance can also change once the game leaves play tester offices and is made available to the general public (especially since the skill cap generally increases greatly and new things/tactics are employed that went undiscovered in play testing).

All I know is that any Sniper I see spamming ice traps and camping out on them immediately gets a "lacking skill' XBL review.

RE: Hudson

You brought up the grapple comment, not me.

We've beat the theme thing to death, no need to talk about it more.

Yes, most people who have posted have agreed with your original post. Could be due to selection bias, or the overwhelming sentiment could lean that way.

Still sticking by the sniper rifle being the most aim intensive, especially given the discussion at the time. Rail gun might come close, but the tank does not need to rely on the rail gun as much as the sniper needs to rely on the rifle. I should have made a caveat to my argument. Maybe I could have been less forceful with the comment.

And the reason I said you were taking it personally was due to your language and tone of your response. Calling someone arrogant, and then putting quotations around theme and compromise just sound like you dislike a person. If I misread it, I apologize, but on the other hand, I don't think I misread it. My comments had no qualms with you respond to several single aspect, although my simple observation about the theme didn't really warrant multiple responses.

And just for clarity sake, you simply are talking about buffing the skill drain of scramblers right? Because they do already have skill drain, it is just somewhat slow. Edit: When you say moving skill drain to the scrambler. I wasn't referring to any speed/health/latching on that you mentioned.

I was not suggesting that Uber does not want us discussing balance or that balance cannot change as the game moves forward. However, due to the random nature of pubs or constantly playing with the same party members, individuals playing experiences will fluctuate wildly from one person to the next. This is why a community driven playtesting group could be beneficial at times.

you, sir, are dumb.

it is legitimately getting difficult to read your posts over and over. i PROMISE you that the thread has made plenty of headway, you're just far too stubborn to realize that YOU are the one that hasn't.

removing the skill drain from the sniper's ice trap and giving it to the scrambler would promote the use of bot flow and not the solidarity tactic. the sniper would now have to rely on more than his ice trap / exploding rounds. the sniper would NOT be able to surround himself with ice traps and feel entirely safe as now he would be vulnerable to a number of things [air strikes, product grenades, smoke bombs]

now, in place of the the sniper would now be able to spawn a useful bot like every other class [with the exception of the assault, perhaps?]. a larger range of skill drain plus an aura after the death of said bot would slow down pro advancement a whole lot.

and HUDSON.

the only issue with destroying ice traps is that they aren't 'destroyed', they're triggered .. so you'll still be trapped if you run through after 'disabling' it.. and the sniper will have plenty of time to throw down a replacement.

Way to take the high road. And I'm glad that you promised me the thread was making lots of headway, I will now sleep easier at night. I'm sorry, but when you come in here using ad hominem attacks, it just makes my eyes glaze over.

Would promote the use of bot flow...

Would now have to rely on more than his ice traps and sniper rounds...

Would now not be able to surround himself in traps and not feel safe...

How does removing skill drain do any of these things? Buffing the bot may do something, but more likely than not, it will encourage snipers to camp in their base more.

How does removal of skill drain promote the use of bot flow? What does that even mean? Do you mean it promotes bot flow? Or is bot flow some magical ability that you need to use that I have never heard of?

How would he have to rely on more than his ice traps and sniper rounds now? Why was he only relying on those things before?

How would he not be able to surround himself in traps and feel safe? You do realize that people aren't automatically stuck in traps right? That people running around not stuck in traps can still kill you? This changes nothing about the sniper's ability to feel safe, but instead influences whether someone in the trap has a chance to escape or not.

And in response to replacing exploded traps. How far away do you think a sniper can throw them from? Like honestly? If they are close enough to throw them, they are close enough to be shot, otherwise how did you blow up their trap?

Signed, +1, QFT, and all that jazz.

Though I might amend "iwin button" to "ulose button." And the correct spelling is B-U-T-A-N.

Also:

I assume you actually kill him first before you review him as such, rather than get frozen and killed, yourself, and review afterward?

Irrelevant. It's first thing these days. Sometimes that's the end of it, sometimes not.

For instance, if he's not even doing much damage, like many Snipers I see trying to easy mode on Steel Peel, there's not much point wasting the effort.

@Southsidesox24. I'm sorry buddy, i didn't realize your were a nerd cop.

I highly respect the nerd police and all their laws. (i.e. Illegally disagreeing)

I realize they track your every post, even the ones you don't make. LOL << Ohh

For one, I rarely post on here anymore. I hate to say it but, I'm losing interest in the game. I still play every now and then but its fading. Hopefully the patch does some good.

Maybe you should take a computer break every now and then, or even go outside sometimes. Because if my seldom "lol" annoys you, you're obviously on here too much. (I don't even remember all my posts.) L..O..L.<<

Secondly, what I said is that NO class is overpowered. But rather there ARE some classes with balance issues. Some classes are pretty well balanced, while others are not.
Simply "quote" what you "claim" I've said and I'll answer any questions you might have.

Other than that, we get it, you love the sniper and want it to stay the way it is.

DelVega, you clearly don't know what the words ad hominem mean. Do yourself a favor and don't try and call someone a nerd on a video game forum, you just sound pathetic.

Lets read carefully...

I said, nerd POLICE...

Got it?

Nope. Lets go through it slower this time.

I argued with southsidesox about this on another topic about snipers.

All that happened from our multiple post argument that spanned 1-3 pages (cant remember) was that i learned that he likes to get his free kills from camping jumppads with his freezemines and that since freeze mines can be dodged, they are in no way overpowered (he brought this up many times).

Oh yeah, also learned that he thinks that sniper's grapple doesn't need a nerf and should infact be the strongest and most powerfull grapple in the game with the best knockback too (incase they are a tank with gold health endorsement).

He also has a bad habit of making arguments go in circles while completely ignoring any valid points you may make. Because your opinions are completely and obviously wrong.

Since arguments with people like that go absolutely nowhere and kill all decent discussion...

My advice would be to ignore him.

And after reading every single post in this topic (yes i read them all) and noticing how all good discussion totally dissapeared after he arrived. My advice would still be...

Ignore him.

I want to see if we can get some more decent discussion out of this topic. I find myself agreeing more and more with Im Hudson because:

- He makes sense.
- He isn't rude and tries to keep things civil.
- He actually adresses others points with valid arguments.




Anyhow i should get ontopic, i think snipers freezemines do need a nerf. The skill sapping can stay imo, what i think should happen is:

-Can be shot and disabled with bullets/shuriken. Right now the only feasible way of getting rid of freeze mines is assault bombs and airstrikes (product grenade hitting mines is more fluke then intention since you have to land it on the mine itself). Even then, the mines go off and the sniper knows your there. Currently, a well prepared sniper is impossible to get the jump on and always has an advantage in combat.

-Duration of snare reduced by 20-40%. Currently you are stuck way too long, a sniper can really take his time, ive frozen a group of three people with three different mines (they were trying to ambush me) and had the time to headshot all three before the snare wore off. Besides even with this implemented, snipers still have a decently long time to kill the frozen guy.

-Increased recently planted freeze mine arming time. Right now you can throw another mine on a frozen enemy's location and it will refreeze him by the time the old one wore off, effectively giving you roughly double the snare time (up to quadruple, if he has 3 mines ready when you hit the first). If they increased the time it takes a recently planted mine to arm itself, this would be preventable.

Lagoon, misconstruing arguments does not make you look good. However, since some of you are taking me not believing ice traps or sniper grapple as overpowered as being adversarial, I'll just leave it alone. I'll admit that I was probably too harsh towards DelVega, but for some reason those little lol's really annoyed me.

Any flak (including your own) will set your traps off