Suggestion for the Vanguards

Read the first few pages of this thread or the announcement thread.

People voiced concerns about transparency, bias, and censoring. The Vanguard essentially said, "Just trust us. We'll be good."

When called out on those claims, The Vanguard didn't seem to understand the implications of their words.

"Just trust us, we'll be good" is not a viable answer. It's the very thing we have concerns about. (again, I'm saying this a a very invested member of the community, supporting the vanguard, and as a member of the realm)

I agree.

What answer would satisfy your issues with trusting us?

One that isn't: "Just because you should!"

I'm quite sure that I've never replied with such a answer. What is it about the Vanguards that makes you feel as though we will intentionally sabotage the development of the game?

Maybe any of the suggestions that have been proposed. Like the one at the beginning of this thread.

I realize you're making the newsletter, but you continue to not see the issue. You're following through with the solution to the problem, without understanding there is a problem.

And not understanding or recongnizing that there isa problem only increases the problems.

That's another thing that has been stated. No one is claiming you will sabotage the game.

We're concerned about you guys ignoring the will of the community and pushing your own personal ideas and suppressing the ideas of the community.

This has been stated over and over and over.

No one has use the word sabotage. No one has said the word lie.

We have used the words bias and censorship.

The fact that you guys continue to ignore that and change what we say is further evidence of our concerns.

How can I censor your words? I have no power whatsoever to stop you posting on the forums or contacting Uber.

If you believe that the Vanguard have some form of agenda in shaping Planetary Annihilation then how is that any different from any self-organised group of individuals on the forum trying to influence development?

Do you believe that by official sanction that Uber will now ignore you or the rest of the community?

And now we run into something that has been brought up several times, and ignored by the Vanguard.

Scenario 1: Uber continues to read everything that is posted on the forums, and the Vanguard is redundant and pointless.

Scenario 2: Uber doesn't read every thread and every post on the forums, and it is therefore possible for Uber not to fully understand the will of the community, and therefore it is in fact possible for The Vanguard to push their own ideas and suppress the ideas of the Community.

Scenario 3:
The Vanguards are meant to make sure that Uber can implement Scenario 1. As Neutrino said:

If you believe it's been ignored, then I will now address it:

Firstly, do you believe that the two scenarios you have suggested are the only two that can happen? Is is likely that only one of these two extreme possibilities will occur with no middle ground?
(ninja colin!)

Second, do you believe that the Vanguard all have a singular vision of Planetary Annihilation that we would collectively push, and if so would you be able to provide an example of a single and cohesive vision that each member of the Vanguard is trying to push?

*sigh*

Simplification to make a point.

I do not believe the Vanguard has an all collective single vision of the game. But even if they all have different opinions, if all or a majority of the vanguard disagrees with an opinion on the community, then suppression is a concern.

These concerns are completely validated by this entire thread. The community has a concern. The Vanguard doesn't believe the community is valid. The Vanguard is dismissing and suppressing the concerns of the community because they disagree with it.

So this isn't even a matter of whether we think it's a valid concern or not. It is a valid concern because this is happening.

I am well aware what the point of the Vanguards is.

As I keep on saying, I am on board with what the Vanguard is supposed to do. I have been pushing for this for months before the Vanguard was formed.

However, the current implementation of the Vanguard has flaws and issues that I am trying to address to improve the vanguard and improve the community. I am only trying to improve things with the community, with Uber, and subsequently the game itself..

I don't see why the Vanguard is fighting so hard against the community it is supposed to represent.

Can I just say let's use layman's terms further on in this thread. Let's all be direct and simple so we can get a direct and simple answer. Simple really.

I don't remember dismissing any concerns. Can you point me to where I have disregarded any concern that you or anyone else has leveled at the Vanguards over the past few days?

You say that the Community has a concern. Am I to understand that you are now able to speak for the entirety of the community? Have you done a comprehensive survey? If so, may I look at your raw data? Are you saying that the thread that you personally started is a microcosm of the Community as a whole?

(Seriously, if you've managed to survey the entire Community in a few days I'd love to see the data and for you to share your method for doing so.)

I am sorry, but are you not reading the responses so far? In all threads of this topic.

What DeadStretch said.

Many people on the forums have expressed concerns and they continue to like my posts as well as thekiller666's posts. If you haven't seen these, or if you have seen these and you're dismissing them, then this is further evidence of issues with The Vanguard that need to be fixed.

Read just about any of The Vanguard's post on this thread or the announcement thread for evidence of their dismissal.

As far as I can see no member has outright ignored your questions or suppressed your concerns with intent to hide critical or relevant information. Can you please provide an example of a question that was ignored or suppressed?

Ok.

Here is my example of a vanguard member suppressing our concerns.

No links or examples?

I believe the quote is his example?