SSX snipe intended?

I agree with some of what the OP shared. However part of me thinks differently. I don't want there to be a lot of cheap ways to snipe a commander, but I also don't want the commander to be a piece you can ignore late game.

At its very core the game type we have right now is very chess like in nature. The objective is to kill all other commanders not allied with you and keep yours alive. I think sometimes it is easy to forget this goal and think the game is about something else. We can become consumed with invading a planet that isn't really necessary for victory or we can focus all of our troops on a battle that doesn't matter. You may win most of the battles but lose the war. In the end it is about trying to find a way to defeat the enemy commander.

So while I agree there are some cheap ways in which to do that, I also strongly feel that protecting and guarding your commander shouldn't be forgotten about. I agree with the changes Brian posted those seem acceptable to me.

However in this situation the OP didn't even know what happened. Which means he was so focused on the other battle he forgot about and didn't have eyes on his king piece. So even if those changes were in I think he would and should have lost.

So at the end of the day everything is all about how to keep your commander protected and kill the enemy commander. Now eventually we will hopefully through the devs and mods have other game types. It sounds like the OP would much prefer the total annihilation kind of option where killing the commander just means you hurt your opponent and you still have to kill all their structures and units to achieve total victory. This seems like the most obvious game type to add first.

I think the long and short of it is that PA orbital needs some tweaks. I think this may have been left in as in much earlier builds this was one of the only ways to end a stalemate, however things like the Annihilaser have been added since so this isn't an issue any more. I'll bet the game will get an update that corrects this before long, and in the mean time keeping you commander on an area patrol on the ground is sufficient to prevent the SXX *insta firing on him* so if you have any significant defences that should be sufficient.

It should be more difficult to get there, not useless upon arrival.

The commander is essentially your opponent's win button, moving the button so your enemy doesn't magic themselves on top of it isn't an example of good gameplay.

Well not useless, just, a short start up time to prevent instant attacks.

But frankly the whole orbital layer of units are kinda......ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh im not a fan of the fighter or anchor.

With enough numbers, due to stacking, that wouldn't make any particular difference. It would just change the number required from 3 to say 10. How much eco should you need to use up for an instant win? None I say, no instant wins.

Killing a commander is a instant win, its the game mode.

So really, the cost doesn't matter when you have already won.

The difference is that there isn't much of a reason not to with stacking, not that I have suggested leaving it in, which was the main point of your argument against the ideas proposed by me.

Stacking will not be easy to solve, at least from I know its not just a integer they can flip to totally fix the issue.

And even then, we are in space, so a limited amount of physically normal stacking will be present as units fly under and above each other in a death wall.

I think you are confusing pay to win and pay to try to win. There shouldn't be a guaranteed way to win, and being able to move your commander out of the way isn't good enough. Why not add the ability to build stealth nukes, that can't be shot down nor seen. Good idea right.

Anyways, even if they did fix stacking, and add in a cooldown period for orbital units, it still would be a bad way to balance the game. As I said, you need to be able to intercept SSX's enroute whilst having them still able to kill stuff when they arrive, if they just get shot down by orbital units with nothing you can do to stop it, why bother.

But you can see sxx lasers, and you can shoot them down.

True, but you are dead and it's game over...

But that's why I made my suggestion......bleh

But... you can see them in orbit... they aren't stealth... and they don't explode a whole area they just shoot a single location.... and then are shot down without firing another shot...

...I don't get it, it is literally nothing like stealth nukes.

Also, if your commander was moving, you aren't dead, and it's not game over...

...Also, and just hear me out, this hasn't ever won a tournament. Know why? Because with orbital-deepspace, SXX are visible from any planet. If you have 3 avengers, you can land your avengers directly aside the enemy SXX in orbit and trade a kill for it. You can do this with every single individual SXX, you don't have to let them stack to 3, let alone 5.

I understand your point. However, in-game, my commander was killed in less than 4 seconds. No amount of "keeping an eye on the king piece" would have changed the outcome.

With that in mind, its not even the "speed" that bothers me. Snipes like that need to be a valid strategy, and if properly executed, it SHOULD be lightning fast.

What bothers me is that I had a "good" defense. Umbrellas and avengers patrolling, etc. As we know, this doesn't do anything to protect the commander against a snipe. There is literally NO amount of defense that can stop this strategy . To protect yourself, you have to keep the commander on the move, or in a transport, etc.

Is this really a good mechanic?

That strategy worked against me once, but now I know how to "counter" it. I'll probably never die from SSX ever again.... Once more, I dont think this is good gameplay.

Every word you write just proves my point, teleport attacks are bullshit.

Okay, the first two lines disproves your point.

The final paragraph proves the point that the "teleport attack" "self-moderates", it counters itself in the best way. It is like how "grapples" are unblockable but they counter themselves because if you take the time to grapple every opening then you are also countergrappling opponent openings as well. If your enemy is depending on an SXX snipe, then you are in much better position to use cheap *** avengers to instakill his SXX.

The same method that SXX use in a snipe, are also the same method to counter SXX at an extreme cost advantage. If the game design keeps itself in check, it's not broken.

Again, what tournament did a SXX snipe win again? List some threads that show orbital invasions are too easy. Because this thread lists ways to make them harder, as if they weren't already massively complained about as "being too hard".

At this point, balance isnt the *only* issue. Yeah, you can "abuse" orbital units to counter the SSX "abuse". Is it balanced? Maybe. Is it retarted? Without a doubt.

Game design may keep itself in check, but its still BAD design. The teleport/instagib nature of orbital units should be fixed / tweaked / removed.

So by that argument, we should have units that can exist everywhere because it's all equally broken, pff. No, fix the game.

I've never claimed SSX are winning tournaments. It's not about making them better or worse but about making them work as they should along with the other orbital units. If bomber's couldn't be intercepted, tanks couldn't be fought on the field I assure you you'd be the first in-line complaining.

This is what we have here, a unit type which due to the mechanics currently in the game, can't be intercepted, and as you said the only way to fight back is to use the same broken **** yourself.

Edit: See the above post, well put my man. This has nothing to do with balance but everything to do with making the game enjoyable and sensible. WSIWYG, right now what I'm seeing is leaving me wanting something better.

P.S stealth nukes were an example of bullshit that could be added to the game, not a description of the problem, I think you are getting carried away with the metaphor.

It's how some games balance. Chrono legionnares in Red Alert 2.

No, prove it's broken first.

Orbital defense units that are useless at defending orbits

Nothing broken here guys

That's proof enough, isn't it?

SXX snipe works always. It ignores any defenses or economical advantage which was put into building defenses. It enforces counterintuitive behavior outside the orbital layer (keeping your commander on the run) in order to hard counter the exploit. It violates orbital mechanics by dropping into orbit at an arbitrary point without ever moving there. Even when there is only 1 SXX, you only have 4 seconds to react before the commander is dead. SXX is not used in tournaments because the hard counter is known and executed by default, basically removing the Commanders excellent fabber capabilities from the game.

Area patrol still uses the commander's excellent fabber capabilities. Also, SXX's hard counter is orbital deepspace and knowing it's coming, it can only come from orbital factory. Also, SXX's balance comes from it's cost and requirement of a factory, just 1 costs so much plus is visible anywhere so it's counter of avengers dropped onto it to kill it kill's it's investment cost with such a smaller investment which is possible to deploy with a small startup from the ground (3 umbrellas and 1 launcher, opposed to orbital factory and fabbers and all that)

I am not sold that tournaments don't see it as a problem because of easy gimmick counter. I think the only real threat an SXX is, is to stationary targets which nukes are effective against too but with pros and cons, and to players who don't pay enough attention to all situations in-game. The fact it get's complaints in a valid balance way, is only by players who don't expect it. It is always-visible on orbital-deepspace radar, it is ridiculous not to see it coming, it is a learning experience. That is like, not knowing a character has a block-counter in Street Fighter. It isn't broken or overpowered, it is just easy to punish repetition using it. Once you know what it does, you simply don't let it happen and then it doesn't happen.

If you don't let SXX happen, it doesn't happen. To play with it's balance, leaves nukes without a variant, as a nuke is a land-based interplanetary attack, it is an area explosive, and it can be shot down by antinuke, while an SXX is orbital based and deepspace radar seeable, it is a single target attacker, and it can be shot down by umbrellas but still gets a single shot before doing so.

With that balance void removed, breaking a planet camper has one less answer. Planet smashes aren't always available, annihilaser isn't always available, mass astraeus suffers against heavy orbital and air fighter patrol, teleporters suffers from planetwide dox coverage.