spawn killing?

I agree. There should be lobbies based on playing solo (Free Agent), having a party of 4+ (Playoffs), for low level players just trying to get better (Rookie, caps at level 20), for high level players (Championship, 99 required), and even a Juice-free playlist (Pre-Season). The current Quick Match could be renamed Regular Season since it is an open playlist.

I like it, but lets not get too carried away. We do have a pretty small community, and I don't think we want to fragment it quite that much.

I started this game with exactly 1 friend. Greg. I got my butt handed to me. A lot. It was clear to me from day one that teamwork > all in this game. I came on here, I sought people out, became good friends with them, and played with them. We learned what classes we played, what works, what does not. We talked about it. Just today Bolt shared a tactic with me that I have NEVER come across.

You learn by playing.

You learn by getting your butt kicked. Hard.

You learn by talking.

You learn MORE by listening.

You learn even MORE by reading.

I've shared lots of things that I do to be successful in this game, as have many of the other players of the community. I've shared ways to counter or fully prevent spawn camping. I've written a comprehensive guide on the class I play 99% of the time. I put all the information out there. I've done more than most players would ever even consider doing for "trying to improve the skill of the community." I'm not saying this to sound high and mighty or that I am entitled to anything because of it, I'm saying that I have more than done what I can short of giving lessons or changing the way I play so that people don't get their feelings hurt.

I have no problem putting all the information out there. It is up to players to provide the skill needed. Its pretty much how I learned anything I did not figure out for myself.

I'm not saying they are required to play or even have fun at some basic level, but to go into a team based objective game with 1-2 people and expect to accomplish the kinds of things that 5-6 person parties are needed for is absolutely ignorant. You are not forced to communicate, but you are DAMN sure encouraged to in ANY team based multiplayer game if you want to remotely be successful against any kind of competent players. This is gaming 101.

I like the idea of rank/skill actually factoring into matchmaking. That would be a fine change if properly handled (and the game has the player base to support it).

Yeah, I just threw out a bunch of sports-themed options. I think Rookie (temporary), Free Agent, Regular Season and Playoffs might be enough to start. That would cover new players, solo, open and large parties.

I understand that. But there are some problems we are just going to have to agree to disagree. Spawn camping and juice chaining can be annoying to newbies, but it takes a certain amount of skill and know how to do it. It isn't cheating, it is just part of the game. You wouldn't say blitz a quarterback is cheating, it is just something a pee-wee league game would do, but when you hit high school through college you start to realize you better do that kind of stuff so you can get on the offensive.

Like hudson said

When I started, I had one friend to play with. WeaponX

I was that bad assassin who face grappled tanks
I didn't know you could BUY juice
I didn't know my own *** from a hole in the ground

I played, I got stomped on. I got better.
I came here, I read and learned, sought out some people to team play with.


Nothing is stopping anyone from doing this.
Getting beat on by good players is the best way to learn imo
Trial by fire

So I started MNC when it first came out as well. I had friends that I played with when they were available but the game has evolved far beyond that level of play. Even when we were losing back then it was nothing like what the game is currently. The concept of not building turrets was a foreign idea. The thought that you could Juice Chain was incomprehensible. The point is that there is no safe haven for new playes to simply learn the controls in Crossfire, and even if they play Blitz the maps will be new to them and how to handle other Pros will be impossible. MNC has evolved from when we learned how to play and not for the better.

It is great that you share your ideas with the community but honestly how many players come to these forums? 5% of the total community? Even that seems much too high. If you have the thought to read the official forums then you likely have a group of friends to play with or at least have the ability to make new ones. Sure your efforts are better than nothing but they do little to reach the majority of the community. Patching this issue or at least attempting to resolve it will affect everyone, not just the ones that come to the forums. Even with a patch the good players will adapt to the changes so why are you so against a change that would benefit the entire community?

Ignorance has nothing to do with it! The game needs playlists, that is not the fault of the players. If anything is to blame it is Uber for not having the foresight to separate large parties from inividual players. Keep blaming the players for things that are out of their control though.

I'm sorry, but avoiding spawn camping should not require an in depth training exercise that includes going to these forums and reading information. You know that is wrong. I'm not saying that skill should not come in to gameplay at all. But to make it so that there is a legitimate chance that you are going to be spawn camped unless you are rolling with 3--5 guys every match seems foolish to me. You still have failed to answer my question. Does Spawn Killing cause this game to be more fun or less? Will it cause people to want to keep playing this game, or quit immediately? Honestly answer that.

Leaving your spawn should not be one of the things you need a 5-6 person party to do. Just sayin'.

Agree. I actively seek out games with the odds stacked against me. You only get better by playing out of your comfort zone. I was playing with Bolt the other day, and I had to have dropped out of the game a dozen times just trying to get matched up on the other team.

This only applies when you have a basic understanding of the game, or in your case an advanced understanding. Are you saying that players that still do not know how to lunge+grapple or charge 3+deathspin/grapple should be attempting to overcome difficult odds instead working on basic skills? Things like when to aim_down_sight versus firing from the hip, or when to use the Shotgun instead of the H/H Gun. Even the most basic skills take practice to learn and you won't be practicing much against Juiced players or when you come out of your spawn constantly and get killed.

The school of hard knocks only works when you know how to defend yourself. Otherwise it is just called getting beat up. And yes, you can go to jail for attempted murder just from being much more skilled in a fight than your opponent even if you were just trying to teach them a lesson.

My brother has just got this game last week. I have not told him a thing about the game beside me bragging how awesome it is. He has zero problem being a "newbie." He has no problem getting "rolled." He has no problem getting "spawn killed." Just last night we partied up and we joined a match in progress so we got split. He was Assault I was Tank. Mind you I have had MNC since launch week. My brother Tore my *** a new one. I said in the lobby afterwards "Damn bro how many hours a day you've been playing this?" He laugh and said this was only he 7th Crossfire match.

Being new to a game has nothing to do with losing.

I'm not sure how any of what I said implied that a new player shouldn't work on basic skills. In fact I'm pretty sure that I didn't mention anything about new players, I was just agreeing with what Hudson has said. For a new player, the average game is going to be difficult odds, and if it's too much then they should quit and get into an easier lobby. Obviously this isn't ideal, but it doesn't break the game. We were all new at some point, and it clearly didn't detract us from the game.

I can't make a post without Hiero and Sox making completely different points, so I'm not going to quote anything anymore.

Hiero: I've NEVER been against more matchmaking options that measure player rank or skill. I'd be fine with that. I'm fine with adding an ejector or something to the top of the spawn. I just don't think gameplay (not matchmaking/playlist) changes are needed to combat this mechanic.

Sox:
The entire game, including spawn camping, is fun. I enjoy charge triple kills. I enjoy watching people run face first into obvious death traps. I enjoy funny things, and lets be honest, spawn camping is funny. I'm still spawn camped at this level. I enjoy the challenge of breaking out, turning around games, and leading a solo push. I also enjoy walking out, getting grappled and then pancaked by a gunner that is waiting above my door. I'll laugh for the next 30 seconds. I might go down, but I'll go down swinging (or laughing) if possible. If not, theres always next game.

And to be perfectly honest: If you quit immediately because of spawn camping, you won't have much luck at any video game, let alone this one. It did not make me quit, and I don't plan on it anytime soon.

I think you did get up against me though, would you say it is fair to assume you learned a thing or two about fighting assassins? I recall stabbing you in the back many times.

By the same token though, I found myself getting rung out a couple times and earning a new respect for well placed flak.

Id also like to note, you are accurate as hell with the sniper rifle.


I've said it before, and will again.
If you cant take the heat, get out of the kitchen.

a second floor to the spawn room sounds fair, maybe an ejector.

but if you think that spawncamping should be punished after the enemy has to kill all your turrets and your pros to accomplish it, then you really need some time-out in c&c renegade.

after playing it and understanding that your base keeps you alive when you spawn, you will understand. it will be like buddha's enlightenment.

Just to clarify, you think spawn camping adds more fun to the game? For both experienced players and new players alike? I'm not actually being sarcastic, I really just want to know how you feel.

And spawn camping is not a problem in almost every FPS I know that people currently play, so I absolutely believe it is a turn off to new players. If there are any games where it is currently a problem, I would like to know about them.

Sox, before I answer, I want to know what exactly this would even bring to the table, and how far we should take it.

You seem very interested in how "fun" in game actions are to other players.

Is it fun to die?
Is it fun to be headshot?
Is it fun to be trapped in an ice trap unable to move/act for 5 seconds?
Is it fun to lose in 1:30 seconds?
Is it fun to lose 15 min turtle fests?
Is it fun to be ambushed by gremlins?
Is it fun to be gapshoted for 15 mins?
Is it fun to play against a team of 6 snipers who only use ice traps, melees and grapples, and still spank you for 15 mins?

If the majority of the player base answered "no" to any of these, would you change your play accordingly? Would you put your perspective of fun aside to accommodate what others wanted in a gaming experience in every single match?

Better question: You know you have a good chance at getting an all-time great (6 man multi-kill) but it requires you to go into their spawn. Do you do it? The reaction of most gamers I've played with: You kill 5-6 people before you even stop to think about it.

I'm asking this because spawn camping itself is fun for the people doing it, and likely less fun for the people on the receiving end of it, because THATS HOW MOST OF THE CONSEQUENCES ASSOCIATED WITH DYING/LOSING IN A VIDEO GAME TEND TO WORK OUT REGARDLESS OF IF YOU ARE SPAWN KILLED OR NOT. If you want some kind of answer, I'd say it has a net effect, with the positives and negatives balancing out. Will it drive some people away? Sure. Will it motivate some people to stay and get better? Most of the people I play with and that are generally competent at this game are living proof of that.

Which will we have more of? I don't know, but either way all it would do is get us to a quantity vs quality debate.

Quick List of games that I've spawn camped or been spawn camped in since the original Xbox:

-Halo 2
-CoD 4
-Dota
-WaW
-MW 2
-TF 2
-LoL
-BC2
-MNC

I don't call them "problems" in any of those games since the obvious counter "hey dummy, don't let them control 90% of the map or you will lose anyway" is a pretty universal principle of gaming.

add Medal of Honor to the spawn killing list, that game is terrible people get triples and quads like they are nothing...