Something needs to change with nukes.

I agree that there should be a mobile anti-nuke unit. Late game, the nuke is very effective at taking out attacking armies or taking care of teleporters.

Such a unit will make ground based attacks more successful

I want subs back!! Nukes ...... meh

"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room!"

Don't we all? Back on topic: I'm for a mobile anti-nuke unit providing some serious limitations, this could be the fast firing weapon that tries to shoot nukes, a T2 satellite that redirects nukes (but still allows them to be taken down by anti-nukes, and not necessarily back to where it came from) might not be out of order here, yes its a bit of an out-there idea.

a

nti nukes have tiny range and the cost of them is irrelevant because you cant add engineering support to them effectively so they take ages to build anyway.

nukes are not in a unworking state.

in arguement, they function like finished state superweapons from most released rts, a la red alert.

they have room for improvement. In many possible areas. Your arguement though as validly argues to remove tanks and bots because pathing, as it does argues remove nukes. Well if we remove both, what do we play using?

Fair enough, removing them completely is a bad idea, even now. Like the title of the post says though, something does need to change and I feel sooner rather than later as it effects most of the rest of the game.

Mobile anti-nukes is a good start as it can help protect armies, expansions and teleporters but how will a unit like that work? Does it have ammo too? (god I hope not!) and once we have them what is the point of building anti-nuke launcher buildings in our base? Especially if they are using ammo and the unit isn't?

Unlimited range anti-nuke buildings was another decent Idea I saw, but that will gt pretty crazy in a big FFA. When 1 player launches a nuke, does everyone's anti-nuke shoot at it? lol

My realization is that nuke defense cannot be active, it must be passive as much as possible. When you have 10 players in a match and 1 does the turtle nuke everyone has to worry about 1-3 nukes at a time anywhere on the map. When 2/10 start doing it everyone needs to worry about 2-6 nukes at a time. 3 are doing it? Be prepared for 3-9 nukes at any spot on the map. As you can see, it quickly spirals WAY out of control and its not like (even with scouting) I could hope to kill all those nuke projects from separate players in time. And if I try? I'll be the target of all 3... So anti-nuking cannot cost ammo and shouldn't be hard to do unless you are really under a lot of pressure.

I like were this thread is going guys, it's getting much more constructive. Keep it up! We need some really good ideas going foreword so we don't end up with the same old nuke implementation that made no-nuke games so popular in the predecessor games.

I will say it again. Remove fab assist from both factories, ta style. No more spam from one factory which requires you to build several anti to counter which simply can't be done with the same speed your opponent can fling and endless steam of missiles from one launcher.

Uber please implement for one build just so the nay sayers can actually try it before saying no

You do know you can assist build antinuke too right?

The issue with build assisting nukes isn't that you can assist their building, it's that assisted building of antinukes isn't as effective since they don't cover nearly a wide enough area.

if you have your little "turtlebase", then you won't have enough metal/energy to build more nukes, just place nukes on nukes and somehow they won't have enough antinukes in their turtle. Otherwise just fly over it with enough t2 bombers and AA, as long as you can build them.

Exactly my point. You can assist anti but it is highly ineffective, and you require multiple anti to cover an area. One nuke with assist outshine anti all day.

I'm saying remove assist for both factories. Now your nuke strength relies on numbers just like anti currently does.

Play ta and you shall see how effective this design is. Nukes must be built in numbers to punch holes, and smart players scout and build plenty of anti to prevent such measures.

Changing the assistance values on nukes and anti-nukes does very little to solve the problem. The range of anti-nukes is still woefully small, and is still a constant drain on resources to maintain. Let alone all the fabbers you will have to divert from other projects and how that will effect the rest of your economy and attacking power. It also does nothing to help armies and expansions. An easy way to get around non-assitable nuke launchers is to simply build more of them. It just does way too little to help the problem, so I don't see it as an avenue worth exploring.

bi

ollocks what if it stays as it is?it

look man if you want the main man to join this game nukes and anti nukes need to be less gay or iwill never be able to get the greatest players to bother with this game.

pl

us the whole game engine feels like it fell out of my arse and i havent had

Then you must not have ever read anything I've written because I oppose many of Uber's decisions.

You will have the exact same problem if you remove assist from both.

Antinuke is less effective because it has less range. It takes multiple antinukes to cover the areas that one nuke can cover.

So if you build the same metal value in antinukes(which is more than I am building in quantity), I can still hit a shitload that you aren't defending.

exactly. A nuke can hit anywhere on a planet AND it's moons. Each anti nuke covers a fraction of that so costs aren't even remotely comparable. Let alone money spent on a nuke is money spend on the offense (and defense if used against advancing armies) where anything you throw into an anti-nuke is purely turtle defense (especially with it's pitiful radius). I'm curious arseface, how do you imagine an unlimited range anti-nuke working in a large FFA game?

This is the whole point of the nuke though! Noone would bother with them if 100%, 90% even 80% of a base could effectively be nuke shielded 100%, 90%, even 80% of the time. Use anti's to cover really important (cant do without) areas, build an auxiliary factory pump out some fabbers to auto-assist the anti and that zone is effectively safe, and suck it up if some low priority areas of your base get taken out..its hardly game over... the same cost in units would do far more damage in a fraction of the time it takes to build a nuke.

Not really, the point of the Nuck in prior games(Not just Ta/SupCom, but most other RTS that include them) were meant as a visually impressive means to cause sudden shifts in the balance of power between players in such a way that a "Winner" can happen much more quickly that it might without the Nucks past a certain point in the game.

TA/SupCom/PA circumvented this somewhat with the Assassination of the Commander/ACU mechanic, but the scope of the game was still such that Nucks could still fill the same role as before but also had the benefit of providing a means to counter such weapons to a degree, resulting in a "balance" that is roughly the same as seen in other games with Nucks.

The problem happens when you get to PA, PA's scope is very much different from almost any other RTS to date(Technically sins is similar in some aspects related to this, but very different in others) due to how it's scope not encompases completely separate combat areas(maps/planets) and the big fancy balance-of-power-shattering weapon isn't the Nuck anymore, it's the Asteroid Smash(also known as a KEW) that fills a very similar role to Nucks in other games by potentially removing entire planets from the game.

Nucks can't fill the same role they have in other games, as good as familiarity is in game design, in this instance it does more harm than good so we need to be open to new interpretations of what "Nucks" can be in PA. My own thoughts are primarily gathered here.

Mike

I am personally preferring the ideas that make nukes more like other units, then as a bullet you shoot at.

Then we can have the nuke factory build a number of different and interesting nukes, all that have their appropriate counters, much like units from the air factory, or land factory's.

But to this point, I will have to mod them into the game to show their effects, as people are not sold on the idea.