Some thoughts on balance

I think he's talking about bomber auto fire

So you just fly the bomber over the dox.

You can also turn the bomber as it is releasing bombs to try to hit the bots as they dodge. Dodging is still effective but it might hit a couple more that way. I have had good success with bombers against dox. Even if my bombers can't kill all of them, the time they spend dodging is time spent not walking towards my mex. Sometimes those extra few seconds is enough to move my own bots over to intercept them.

Area attack works fine too early game if you have vision of the area, if not the bomber will just spaz out and get shot down. I usually send a fighter a second before the bomber and have both on area attack. When I see they are dodging I will always aim for the front most dox perpendicular to their movement, so as you say slow them down as much if they are dodging or hit as many as possible if not. The fly over is only good when you have a formation of 4 or so bombers over a blob, so more common late game.

I find when I try and target my bomber at the last second I **** up and park my bomber in front of the Dox.

Yeah if you target too late and the unit is not in the bombers line then it spazzes. Similar to the area attack. The bomber gets vision too late and then is unable to attack a dox that's not on it's line. Can be hard to click the dox too from tactical view. I would like an attack ground function. But that would make air extremely op if used right.

Well it's more that I have the mouse click accuracy of a hippo on Xanax. Frankly, the other day my hand was shaking so much during a 1v1 I kept making my area builds planet wide.

Fear my Uberness

Yeah it was about the formation bombing runs. The handling of the movement is not that hard to do but i didnt think of the formation wise bombing.

So any ETA on a balance update? Hopefully before leaderboards.

As a ranked Uber Player (LOLz) I now feel my opinion is valid ^^. No but seriously, having now got a few ranked games under my belt, my opinion on the dox has changed. That tank build counters it pretty good, saying that headcrab kicked my butt using both that and the dox.
So know i have no idea, and chuck the idea into the fray, that perhaps (even though not that pretty to watch) the game is in fact balance, or nearly. Maybe a little buff to grenadiers for unit diversity, which i feel is missing in the 1v1 scene.

If I could change the dox:
- I would keep its fire rate as the dox seems the only counter against a boombots rush.
- So I would nerf its visibility range, it does not need visibility to raid, but it does need speed. Less visibility gives the player a reason to scout more.

Yes, their LOS currently invalidates the purpose of Skitters.

Yeah I think the only consistent suggestion across players that i've seen is to nerf the Dox LOS. It seems to be a no-cost solution.

Like this post if you would like to see most of this go into game, and I mean most as in don't like this if you really want to keep vanilla exactly the same rather than these changes Well? Seriously, like this post if any more than 60% of these changes work for you and/or you see no massive gamebreaking leverage in a build with this balance. If you do have comments about "how much" you like it, or which of it you like or hate, then feel free to specify with a shortened quote below me in this thread.

These are my current balance suggestions. These are somewhat tested amongst mods but aren't suggesting any major crazy changes where avoidable. A lot have evidence backing it up too.

A lot also don't interfere with each other, WHICH IS WHY T2 IS MOSTLY NOT MENTIONED because it works right now and buffs like these to make proxies viable and early game death less imminent might see the return of some t2 and if we don't buff t2 we won't risk it becoming a necesity again.

I considered these interacting with each other, and their interaction has been mostly tested too. They function, with variety, and don't change each other enough to neglect one or smother another or secretly overbuff anything. Towers, proxy, expansions, raiding, t1 units, bots, tanks, air, naval, and all, should end up useful with nothing secretly disqualifying anything else from use. Could be wrong, doubt I am though.

Latest Balance Suggestions by me:

-Dox up in price to 55-60. No other changes, as dox are aight enough to tweak instead of hammer.
-Grenadier down to price of 80-100. I found out personally, that if they keep their splash as big as it is though, then they will def be the new dox. So, decrease their splash radius to 9. They don't need damage change, this massable a damage unit can already address tanks.
-Decrease combat fabber price to 300. The price was a legacy price from when they assisted fabricators. Now that tanks have armor and combat fabs can't assist, a price of 300 puts them within usefulness of tank armies and base babysitting
-Make landmines useful. For starters, if complete invisibility but only 40-50 damage and splash radius of 11 with a trigger range of 10, they would be useful, while not able to completely decimate armies, AND would be a good thing to use as an initial defence against bots when building a proxy.
-Make adv. combat fabbers, since we have them anyway, cost 1400 and able to build any turret, wall, artillery, teleporter, mines, and have a range of 100 and metal-usage of 60. This would make it possible to use them to creep or use in-combat, but not too magically since they wouldn't insta-build things. It would also make it possible to establish artillery with them, but artillery could use a buff/use. It would also make them simply better at base babysitting or using fewer per army due to their range.
-Skitters are mildly useful for fast paced startups and 1v1s for instance. However, for variety sake, it is a mild improvement, to make it cost 120, and have 150 health and a dox weapon doubled in damage. That way it does have something to contribute to a tank army.
-increase radar price from 200 to 300, decrease range from 600 to 500. Doesn't change role but would change priority, usefulness, necesity.
-single laser defence cost decrease by 50
-double laser defence cost decrease by 50, range increased from 110 to 120
-triple laser defence range increased to 180, just to make it somewhat viable late-game when turrets lack range to even see action. Secondary suggestion, just drop it's cost a ton to just 200 more than a double-laser.
-Like the commander torpedo nerf, now give slammers a similar nerf. No greater than 180 range, and no more dps than an orca. As dense and fast as they are, that would be plenty enough.
-Speaking of naval, make naval useful. Suggestions follow.
-Scout, reduce cost ffs everything naval don't have to cost huge because it is game-breaking unless you give that unit some magical power. If you don't want to reduce cost, increase vision to 350. That's right. 350. The only thing that would justify that unit.
-Strongly consider creating a new light quick cheap skirmishing unit, or make the scout into this. Suggested traits: 250 metal, 310 hp, speed of 12, torpedoes only, 60 damage, rof of 0.5, 140 range
-frigate Narwhal, needs to be AA effective costwise as land is. The price can stay if the power goes up, or vice versa. Suggestion: 450 metal, 750 hp, speed of 10, aa weapon range 120, aa weapon damage 35 (yes it does matter)
-destroyer Orca, needs about as fast as old days. Suggestion: all else the same, increase speed to 8
-naval fabricators, increase fabrication range to 50. Consider also upping the commander fabrication range, having the shortest of all fabrication ranges is anticlimactic.
-Give the kestrel something different from the t2 bomber. Legacy speaking, gunships have higher health than most air. Increase health by 50, decrease cost by 50. Also makes a new role because in light AA presence this can be damaged and fly back to be repaired.

You should post this on the support thread

hmmmmm ...yes!

Strongly Disagree. This will destroy balance.

Don't say anything if you don't have something constructive to add.

It's no less constructive than the "I agree" post above it

The difference is, I liked that post.

...I mean.... but one is a valid point and the other isn't...

Seriously, there is a lot of dead weight hanging around in the game right now. Units that are placeholder but are "mistakes to use". Combat fabs that don't do anything OP but cost as much as a factory. A bot that is just a dox with all-dps-in-a-single-shot, but cost as much as a tank. Every naval unit in the game, despite a commander torpedo nerf you don't just commando with him but you still shield using him while building torpedo launcher. t2 isn't reachable in a normal scope of a game in light of such straightforward rush and amass strategies.

The basis of my balance suggestion, was "take anything in the game not working, and do what's necesary to make it a real choice to use".

Most of these ideas are sensible enough... It would certainly shake up the current balance a lot, but then isn't that what we've been asking for?

One change I'd like- double health of leviathan as currently it dies to 2 t1 bombers in one pass.