Some ballance brainstorming suggestions post migration

Discussion in 'Balance Discussions' started by MrTBSC, June 9, 2018.

  1. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    probably easier to make than the other stuff i suggested in the other thread
    https://forums.uberent.com/threads/some-brainstorming-ideas-for-possible-future-pa.72988/



    - buff atlas hp to be better used for assault .. maybe swap HP with ares as the latter is rather heavy fire support
    - buff icarus to be used at least as early antiraid defense or for hunting undefended fabbers in the early game ..
    maybe buff HP .. should not become a t1 gunship though ..

    - at least Increase speed of Wyrms because they are too slow
    - maybe make angels a bit cheaper

    - make use between sheller, bluehawk and gil-E so there is a bit more RPS in using them
    suggestion Gil-e beats bluehawk cause sniping its missiles, sheller beats Gil-E in range, bluehawk beats sheller in range ..

    - maybe buff hornetrange
    - maybe buff grenadier range
    so both don´t fly/run into their death against turrets
    - also make hornet so it doesn´t launch its missile prematurely when issued an attack target order ..
  2. w33dkingca

    w33dkingca Active Member

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    Don't know what to do with the atlas? if its health increases its a no effort base wrecker, atleast with its current health you need to make an opening for it if you want to wreck a base, I prefer gameplay that makes players work for a victory.

    The Icarus is indeed already a good raid unit, I use it often. Its more an eco unit than anything else though, its role is well suited as is, another bonus, it isn't selected with all air so multiple angles can be achieved and executed well with the Nooby all air hotkey.

    Wyrm's are good enough as is, I messed around with speed at a reduction of health and tbh neither really made a difference, I find slow is good and perfectly viable balance wise.

    The angel has a good price point, it can shoot down missiles has good health and repairs nearby units, if it were any cheaper angel spam would rule above all. Its pricey because it's supposed to loose you some time in the air game for the advantage it bring's upon completion.

    Not sure about the sheller, bluehawk, gill-e idea, A bluehawk with a larger range than sheller, ok its a guided missile but that would be very op, imagine all your massive leveller army unable to catch up to the bot's and just being picked off. I guess air is a counter and as tanks have the potent AA it could be alright though, shellers counter is air or orbital, and as bots don't have that great an AA it would mean spinners but again that wouldn't stop kiting infinitely on a tr2 tank force. Sheller is a slow unit with very little health and im not sure buffing blue hawks is a viable option to counter, the sheller isn't guided and thus can be microd around, I know mass sheller a lot harder and near impossible to micro around head on but mass sheller is a very weak army to the right composition and attack plan.

    As for making bots/air not walk in to Turrets. Move commands.. Stand ground, aggressive stances. (not sure on actual names) use them!
  3. nimzodragonlord

    nimzodragonlord Member

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    “The Icarus is indeed already a good raiding unit”
    No it isn’t. It’s too slow. It’s health is pathetic. It’s DPS is laughable. It’s vulnerable. It’s more efficient to just build power generators. That said, it is a good unit for producing power when a planet has already been locked down. But overall, it is a terrible unit that I would never use for raiding.
    MrTBSC, stuart98 and river39 like this.
  4. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    ares beats units and bases at range no problem .. the atlas can easily be kited by ranged units ..
    if you want to kill an army you might just use your own and then just go flaten the base .. no real reason to invest the 30 k metal into the atlas .. heck even the zeus that has lower range and hp than the atlas is of better use against armies with weak AA ..



    yea i disagree

    the only units worth repearing are either titans and the wyrm or vanguards .. it rather acts more as a AAPD ..


    so matter of composition .. the sheller has still the splashdamage that the bluehawk lacks and itself is not exactly fast .. in that case even with shorter range gil-e may be better for kiting .. other option would be vanguard or any other unit to soak damage that would be meant for the sheller .. also bluehawk may track a possition but it doesn´t homing ...

    used it till the release of the game .. it never worked .. grenadiers would still run into turretrange and stop there ..
    Last edited: July 18, 2018
  5. w33dkingca

    w33dkingca Active Member

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    As quitch once said (you guys will listen to him right!) . You guys need stop complaining and learn to play the damn game!
  6. acesoyster

    acesoyster Active Member

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    No need to be dismissive of the discussion itself TETC. There’s no denying that some of these things aren’t perfect.
    tatsujb likes this.
  7. w33dkingca

    w33dkingca Active Member

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    True, sorry quib, I must wash my persona with soap, being a bit of a **** as of late.. (return fire in the wrong area I guess) I will say though, I do find the balance current prettey good.
    Before, atlas was stronger, it walked everything so they nerfed and now its not just a one click win game unit, it does go down fast to everything which is annoying but even a slight buff could hurt as most people need to chuck their entire army at an atlas if air isn't the way to go.
    Wyrm: speed does nothing for the unit, tried it before, with its weapon if you use it to take on tanks/bots tr2, it pays for itself almost immediately. its strength gives it the ability to walk in to a base easily aswell, although they do go down prettey easy if you don't support them and just throw them at a com or something instead of biding time for the right moment.
    Angels :
    Icarus: How do you make it any better? Give it more eco is all id say for it, price increase slightly to counter, maybe make it not die to a single (both hit) dox shot, the only thing that would make it any more viable is more eco really, its supposed to be there for early builds and empty planets. It can pull of an early raid, cheaper than bombers, gives you power but past that why do we even need the unit when we have the bomber.
    Sheller: no idea what id do, bluehawk range increase to greater than that of the sheller? come to think of it, given bots vulnerability to air could be a good idea, but the infa kite, the range it would have on base defences., I dunno id give that change a go, could actually spice things up.
  8. acesoyster

    acesoyster Active Member

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    I disagree r.e. ICARUS, it’s lack of vision makes it really hard to use as a raiding unit. It doesn’t even see the dox that’s shooting it down most of the time.
    tatsujb likes this.
  9. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    how many times have you seen icari being actualy used? .. they are not worth it for powerproduction as how easily they are shot down by interceptors or spinners .. they have pitifull health to survive any raid attempt thus building actual powergenerators makes simply more sense .. neither is their powerratio cost effective .. so two areas were they are outclassed ..

    make them actual engineerhunters and/or raiders for undefended maxes maybe a substitute defensive airunit until you bring in interceptors .. the way they are now they are straight up useless ...


    sheller vs bluehawk:
    as i mentioned the sheller has splash over the bluehawks acuracy (it still does only track the last possition of a unit it does´n home into it all the way) .. way i see it the bluehawk is the preferable antistructureoption were the sheller is the general antiarmyoption .. so sheller excels at antigroundarmy, bluehawk has leeway to antiorbital and gil-e is additional AA and missile pd ... all three have their use .. the sheller would not suffer from having slightly less range than the bluehawk cause theoretically the sheller may kill more units with a attack than either the bluehawk or gil-e ...
    Last edited: July 18, 2018
  10. nimzodragonlord

    nimzodragonlord Member

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    Obviously, we should change the model and name of the Zeus to that of the icarus and just get rid of the icarus as a non-titan unit.
  11. billthebluebot

    billthebluebot Active Member

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    radar stealth for atlas. punish lack of recon. maybe speed boost to help outmaneuver leveler blobs.

    make Icarus more efficient than pgens but still flimsy. more speed. dance in the skies or build regular pgens seems like an interesting choice to me. probably increase model size a tad.

    powerful, long ranged gil-e can't shoot through mountains or over hills. bluehawk becomes blob support focused, can shoot down air, missiles, and orbital. shortish range rapid fire sheller can shoot over stuff.

    add more aggressive effect to ares hover to convey its aoe damage... or remove aoe and allow me to boom rush that poorly defended ares over yonder.

    togleable voicelines suggesting ubercanon use when comm is under attack. tons of people die when they shouldn't have. I realize this isn't really a balance suggestion, but still.

    I can't remember sea mines ever working as advertised, or if we still have them. basically add working sea mines.

    *insert overly complicated solution to subspam here*

    ... bring back stinger.. I miss it..
  12. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    wouldn´t be a bad alternative if health stays the same .. personaly i would like a HPbuff ..
    speedbuff? hmmm rather only slightly at best ..

    ... ehhh .. i rather would have them as a light fabberraider or for undefended maxxes ..
    having them as Pgenalt .. nah they would need some hp and pgenss still should be the costeffective option ..

    gil-e can target air bluehawk can target oribital .. gil-e projtiles should NOT clipp mountains .. firing over hills is what shellers and bluehawks are for ..

    ares can be easily countered with mines if not scouted ...


    personaly i don´t .. so eh ...

    i just don´t like the idea of having the same type of unit on bot factories and vehicle factories ..
    the factories should provide real impact to the game of what their set offers instead of simply being "flimsy cheap option" and "tough expensive option"
    Last edited: November 5, 2018
  13. netpyxa

    netpyxa Active Member

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    Hornet probably does not need a range increase. The way that it can use its max range is when you do not issue an attack order but rather instead you move this aircraft close to the target and just outside of its shooting range. it will then proceed to close distance and maintain maximum range while shooting. AI works like that with all units in the game and it is particularly effective with the Hornet and with Grenadiers. With micro like that hornets outrange all units but the sniper bots. And grenadiers will outrage small and medium laser turrets. Yes right now without any changes you can outrage stuff with Hornets and Grenadiers. Just dont issue an attack order. if you do then the unit closes in to a shorter distance making sure that their target can not leave their shooting range immediately.

    Hornets are not great but they are often game ending units in silver games because players do not capitalize on air often and they do not build sniper bots either.

    Overall air does not need buffs. I would rather see nerfs to Zeus titans and possibly gunships. They break any air defence and in the end they force air domination meta in all big games like FFA, 5v5 etc because they can not be defended with galatas and if you win air you then proceed to win with Zeuses.

    Zeuses are completely imba i think in very large games. They are true game enders in FFA.
    Last edited: August 28, 2018
  14. bobadubub

    bobadubub New Member

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    I don't think there's a problem with the planet-side 'experimentals' personally. They are not always the best solution for their cost and nor should they be. Each one has a situation where it's a good investment VS just building a huge army, without being good enough to be the default solution to all end game scenarios.
    I don't think Atlas needs a HP boost but if it were to get one, no more than +10000 I think. It should not be close to the Ares.

    The Icarus definitely could do with some love. I'd like to see a HP and speed buff, maybe even increase the energy it produces to help it fill that niche. I think it wants to be an early game defence for your expanding fabbers, while providing that small buff to energy at the risk of being more fragile.

    Wyrm needs a speed buff imo. Same with the Hornet and Angel, but maybe both could take metal cost reductions instead.
    Air is already strong though so I don't think buffs without nerfs is healthy. I agree with what somebody wrote above, Kestrals are too good vs the defences that should be stopping them. Maybe give them a small range or DPS nerf.

    A personal pet-peeve of mine is the Kaijus. They are almost always the best thing to spam out once you get T2 naval and fare too well VS land. They need a speed reduction then either a cost increase or a HP reduction in order to feel less universally useful.
    The Typhoon never feels worth it to me but I'm not sure what it needs (I never really use them), maybe just cost reduction? Or perhaps if the Kaiju is nerfed the other naval vessels kinda find their own roles more, idk.

    I'm happy with the balance of the game in general, I just think it'd be nice to see more of the units that are getting left behind a little.
    tatsujb likes this.
  15. MrTBSC

    MrTBSC Post Master General

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    at the moment ares is simply more preferable over the atlas .. it has health, range AND splash, as well as a chrushmechanic .. the atlas has less range for its splash and can´t take much, so it doesn´t matter if it can dish it out when it doesn´t manage to get close .. and they cost both the same price ... having supoort benifts generaly both ..
    the ares however seems less reliant on support than the ares ..


    hornet speed imo seems fine, my pet peeve with it is when it doesn´t focus on the target i asigned it to attack and for no reason launches a missile on a different target on the way messing up its launchpattern ..




    kaijus can be demolished easy when you have good aircontrol ... the naval player has no hover AA option and has to rely on his own air to keep his kaijus save .. you simply have to be carefull to not run into stinrays or krakens near the coastline ..


    me thinks a range buff mabye as well as a dronelifetimeincrease but that is gutfeeling ..



    weither you issue an attack or just navigate them to a target if there is any enemy unit or structure on the way the hornet launches a missile on it than the intended target ..
    the same with "return fire" if you run into any aa on the the way the hornet may attack that ..
    and its reload is fairly long .. and you clearly don´t want to go "switch to hold fire, assign target-switch to fire at will" every time you use them, that´s unnessesary extramicro for that unit .. hornets are simply good for sniping any specific target ... that is if they don´t launch their missile prematurely .. the hornet needs to hold fire automatically until it reaches the intended target when issued an attack targed order ..

    wyrm definately does need a buff its tankyness does not save it against AA with how slow it is and angels are not only costly but also don´t save against gil-e´s that have very good range and hit hard nor help it against flak which despite its low range is pretty darn strong ..
    Last edited: September 12, 2018

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