So... the older players were all terrible?

Seems that you argument hinges on the one and only fact that really matters. We stopped playing. Sayin Somone was bad when you witnessed games and never played in them is beyond ballsy of you. The reason a lot of those guys did so well is because they found out what to do and what not to do. Paving the road for future players. Most stopped playing because the game was getting to the point of not being fun Anymore. Wasn't trying to rip the tag off a mattress with my posts but, You would have a far better argument if you had stated that the older players may not flourish so well in the new age of mnc.

This is an interesting read, and I'm a little offended that my name was never mentioned :lol:
haha I played against team oxyteam and everybody like that, so I can personally say that the(us) older players were good, very good! The point that keeps getting brought up though is that we stopped playing while everybody else kept playing and getting better. While that is true I still find myself picking up the controller and jumping into pub matches and single handedly I keep the opposing team in their base(for the most part). Another point is that the game has changed, this is both right and wrong. The game hasn't changed because uber refuses to patch the thing! yes, we are still waiting on an update(I remember when they were asking us for ideas of what to include in the update and all we wanted was more armor and customization options). Other than the whole update thing though, players have found different strategies to be more effective. Our old way of playing was unbeatable at the time, but now teams seem to be divided into two play styles; either teamwork focused, or just all out everyman for himself power pushing. Us older players where always just trying to have fun and crush the opponent in the most humiliating way possible( Team oxyteam for example had this one move involving a tank, and an assault, it was hilarious!) and after the game you would poke fun at them, and that was it! people are taking things seriously now, and Its not as fun anymore. I've also noticed people are finding more glitches, such as the support throwing his airstrikes off the map for an instant kill, the first time this happened to me I was so confused as to what happened! Basically what I'm trying to say though is that Us older players were, and given the chance to brush up on our game, are still good! I will say that I have experienced first hand some of these new strategies and while they are impressive my old play style can still punch holes in these "new unbeatable" defenses. I just thought I should throw my two cents out there and now I have.

oh and here is that team oxyteam move I was talking about: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcBRk2JSyf8

How many of these founding players have videos where they got the ball down and kept it down nailing the ball mid map with shruikens for the win?

How many players played 1 of each class with juice off and found a way to win without overtime?

What teapot says is true... even when i played with excitant on our team and how he talked about being with smoke and those guys its a completely different ball game and spamming gremlins to get a ball down these days isnt going to cut the cheese.

Half the gunners who played back then were nothing but ground gunners who never even flew more then 3 seconds.

if i knew who you were and played against you id mention you..
when i first started playing the game before oxy team there wasnt much to mention..
i mean there were tons of friends/clans are stomping together
they played good as a team but never got challenged...
grand prize was the team which cleaned house and pretty much ended oxy.
mnc on pc came out and most people dropped that pretty quick.

there were game battles and dev nights etc but honestly if the devs stepped into a private match today with say mircale, shammas, chron, knives,kckzi, teapot, skill, chollo, panda, gunked, crimson, etc they would never want to play again. Thats how bad the slaughter would be.

You could bring back your top best 6 friends, form a team and make a challenge on here. I can promise you that the players playing now even someone like skill who stuck with the game would give you a huge wakeup call.
that video is great and all but with the new play styles i know players who can toss headcrabs from the top of the anialtor and get kills better then that.

How many of these older players could toss an air strike with percision half way accross the map and nail a beacon? Not under the map.. i mean above the map

How many of these older players could toss a bomb over wall and detonate it in the air sending anyone out of the map within seconds?

ha ha I honestly couldn't tell you because they aren't around to test it out anymore. I really want to see these new strategies though, I'm still goofing around and joking after the games, so I have to idea as to how I will stand in these "new" private matches. But I can say this, We had our time and then we moved on and now the new players can have theirs, its a little like the cycle of life more or less!

as for the admin thing, they were usually beat anyways(no offense to any admins reading this) It's like that with almost any game, just because you made a game doesn't mean you are going to be any good at it. Usually the only reason Dev's play is to catch any glitches, or to hang out with the community, so I wouldn't be surprised if they were destroyed.

Like I said though, we had our prime now it's the new "generations" time, I'm just going to keep playing like I know how to, it seems to be working in public matches! :lol:
I do however want to see how I compare to the newer players!

Add me for private matches (i'm usually the person who has to invite everyone in). GT is in sig.

From when I played (when Sigmar and Fear the Rifle were still around) the game has changed A LOT. Support is now the Gunner's bitch, Gunner destroys pretty much everything. Assault is pretty much the most important class (definetly the most versatile). Assassin hasn't changed much though (the class I presume you play as it's in your sig), so it wouldn't be too much different for you.

alright, I will add you when I get on next. I should be jumping on in an hour or so! I have noticed that supports aren't coming after me as often, they just sit back and heal, and every other assassin is still only going for kills, I even tell them its not about the kills, but they don't listen. :/

Even meta game aside, the top three per class right now vs the top per three class for then (excluding repeating of people like miracle Shammas Kckzi who continued and improved a lot) its not even close. Back then each class had one, two "great" players per class, and I use that term loosely. Now you have a handful of players per class worth mentioning. On top of that, the older players really did nothing that paved the way for the current players, not a thing. We literally took each class and gave it a very true identity in terms of role and potential. Back then it was simply assassins and tanks kill bots, everyone else try and get juice. It's no contest, the current players are far better. The only argument you could make is maybe if you put the select few who truly developed the meta and play styles that made the game actually competitive, and put them in each era which one would have thrived better. The older players who wrote guides and made videos though, their contribution is crumbs compared to the rest of the meal that some of us contributed to skill development in this game and the ability to win

Thats because you're playing in pub matches. 99% of them are really bad and won't listen. Thankfully there are some who do listen and do really well now that do as they were told (e.g RandomToon, James Melledy & Jeremy Doll).

Glitches arnt used in private matches and most players despise them. Some players abuse them in pubs for the joy of doing it and most seasoned players know how to counter and avoid things.

Theres a few glitches which can be helpful which the community has pulled together and created. Custom public matches which are the options most older players wanted but never got. Basically pulling private match options into a custom pub and the host having total control of classes, juice, bots etc. As for playing privates vs pubs they are a little more hostile and more serious though some players just play for fun. Others get fustrated and quit while some just want to play win or lose.

You'll find that some games you won't even be able to breath cause you get crapped on so hard while other games you may lose because you lost focuss on the objective.

There is no more turtle support, no more deploy gunner, no more juice chaining.
There is more bot killing and pro killing

Tanks played in games now are a cross between sniper and assassin or even just like assassin. Counter classes are pitbulls to the other classes.

Assault and support are the game winners 99% of the time and thats one thing that most support players need to pick up on is proper juicing and prep for the moneyball. Not sitting in their own base hoping for turret kills.

Joker, what do you mean by we did nothing to pave the way for the new generation? We created countless guides which many play styles have origins in, we more or less helped make the game by telling the devs what was wrong, and what the community wanted, and countless other things. All I've heard about this new generation doing is just building off of what we set up, and improved the tactics. Back then it was everybody go all ahead full, and push bots while killing and trying not to be killed. I am just assuming here because I have yet to play with any of you new players, but from what I think it would have been harder for us because we were dealing with a broken game, op classes, and people who tied glitches into their normal strategy. It was amazing to see an assassin that could take out a turtle support, or a support tank combo. From what I hear nobody does that anymore, so I'm guessing that everybody just plays as a team now(which we set up the grounds for with our starting of tournaments).

wildman, I do come across a pub player who listens every now and again and its always funny to see their kdr go up a bit afterwards! there are some cool people in pub games.

Feedle, it sounds like people are taking advantage of what we asked the devs to put in for us! It was always a pain dealing with that player who would just sit back with fully upgraded long shots and build up money for bots a juice, then go in and destroy all of our turrets. I will say though, that when your dealing with somebody who is juice chaining and you have no turrets, you improv with some pretty interesting strategies :lol:

devs havnt done anything for us but tell us to buy mnc and a new computer.
The last update was good in my opinion cause it took out wall hacking and the speed dash assassin. Also took out the jet flames through the wall and the level 2 support hacks on opponents stuff.

Juice chainers are delt with grapples and double team. Buying their juices and feeding them it is the best way to make them stop.
A full base of level 3.3 rockets won't stop the players nowadays. Even in overtime the ball can be destoryed while out of their range. You may not think so but it can be done if you need me to show you.

We also eliminate grenade 3 and spunky due to lag, pick the best host among all players and play fair.

Pubs and privates are apples and oranges.... the thing is some of them are sour
But again go talk to chron, wildman, any older player who still plays and get involved and learn how the game is played now. Its alot more strategic then just the try hard assassin etc.

Chaos also plays privates if you want to see an older face in the current game
Not sure who you all played with who still plays but i can tell you from playing weekly if they do or where they went.

This is such a retarded argument. The GUNSKILL of the older players is something that could potentially rival some of the newer players. However, the STRATEGIES implemented by older players do not work as well against the strategies that are currently implemented. And in this game, strategy is just as important, if not more important, than pure gun skill.

Things that you could do back then, you cannot do now. And the fact that GP completely and utterly destroyed Oxyteam is proof that a more modernized strategy rapes the Oxyteam's eras pubstars.

None of those older guides do anything for the pm community, maybe the public to some extent. I never read a guide learning to play this game nor did I ever ask/take advice. Miracle invited me to pm's over a year ago and after a few matches I told him I was going to make a significant impact on this game because I had many opinions on what was right and wrong (in terms of competitive play). Most people who miracle pushed the idea of me being a soon to be top player kind of brushed it aside, but I kept showing up to pm's with their chaotic mindless slaying until a ball was down and in time got a lot better and helped influence a much more structured selfless team orientated style of play. Most of the people who I felt were best class for class I started talking with and discussed playstyles with in terms of pros cons and endless "what-if" scenarios. None of these players had guides, nor we're considered "the best of the old days". Writing a guide with shabby tips or basing playstyle off someone who puts up fifty kills in a pub or a YouTube video will do nothing but create half-assed clones who play selfish for kills and OT victories.

There is no opinion really, it is pretty much fact that the core group who were involved with the very regular private matches starting around April of 2011 and have continued, have done far more in terms of "how to be a great player" in this game than anyone else

We're the old players bad? No, but nobody was really that good
Could they beat the current players? No not even close
Do they deserve any credit for developing this game competitively? No, and there is only evidence of USEFUL info of "what to" and "how to" from players like myself, Shammas, and teapot, and the best pm videos are from us, not the older players

Amen.

GP was more skilled than oxy. Miracles assault was much stronger in terms of slaying power than anyone on oxy. Shammas knew how to hold a lane, and sig had a better shot than their sniper. GP really didn't have any strategy, they were just better

Actually PU5H killed 90% of the bots, and I had as many kills as Jordan most games.

this game has eras?

Host!

^^^Shammas also left out some certain circumstances...