So No Subs, ever?

Discussion in 'Planetary Annihilation General Discussion' started by sigmud2, January 11, 2015.

  1. philoscience

    philoscience Post Master General

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    Actually if you read the Kickstarter ToS you'll see they are explicitly protected from exactly this kind of argument. You signed a contract when you registered with Kickstarter stating that you understand there is no guarantee of goods delivered and that your money is essentially a donation. If it were otherwise Kickstarters would all be inundated with lawsuits, successful or not. Kickstarter only promises to remove clearly fraudulent campaigns and makes it clear you back at your own risk. Doesn't stop people from spouting nonsense legalese about binding contracts and 'investments' every chance they get, but hey, it's the internet, everyone is a lawyer, doctor, and economist.
    MrTBSC and squishypon3 like this.
  2. philoscience

    philoscience Post Master General

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    Actually after consulting the new KS ToS, let me revise my statement slightly. Kickstarter does specify that backers are entitled to stated rewards or in the event of a failure a clear and reasonable explanation of what the money was spent on and what prevented reward delivery. Kickstarter itself holds no liability in this exchange but states that projects failing to meet these guidelines may be subject to legal action by the backers. Here are the exact terms:

    https://www.kickstarter.com/terms-of-use
    Note however that this says absolutely nothing whatsoever about specific features listed in either the initial project outline or stretch goals. It is quite clearly aimed specifically at the rewards themselves which in the case of PA corresponds to the custom commanders, naming rights, and physical goods. Unless Uber specifically promised a custom sub for a certain backing package the ToS provide literally no support whatsoever for any legal backing. So the premise of your argument is still basically flawed.

    I suspect you will reply that the ToS says 'must complete the project', but given that the game is released and there is no reference implied in completion to stretch goals, I think any lawsuit based on a missing or incomplete stretch goal feature wouldn't have a snowballs chance in hell. Particularly considering the level of detail Uber has provided throughout the development process about each individual feature. I hope this puts this topic to rest, though I am sure it won't.

    /derail
    MrTBSC likes this.
  3. devoh

    devoh Well-Known Member

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    Am I the only one that thinks Uber is doing a good job and that threads like this depress me? I can only imagine what it does to the Uber employees that read it. I'd be willing to bet 99% of Uber does not have a say in when the physical rewards are shipped, nor what features get worked on and in what order.
    They have half the staff they had originally.. and have made some awesome progress working towards their vision for PA come to life.
  4. sigmud2

    sigmud2 Member

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    I honestly didn't have any intentions for this thread to turn into this, it honestly bothers me that it was derailed so much.
  5. lokiCML

    lokiCML Post Master General

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    In the end its up to a court to make the final decision based on the circumstances around it.
    The current ToS does not apply to Uber or backers because prior ToS to the change provided no way to transition to the current one. Uber is doing a great job; I am not saying suit Uber. I'm say there is a way for backers to deal with fraudulent or otherwise kickstarter projects (but not kickstarter itself). Is not purely a written word that matters it is the entire circumstances that have to be take into account. Again it's up to the court to make the final decision.
    Last edited: January 13, 2015

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