So it's 2 days left until Retail-Release....

Define "Major".

Then compare with SupCom 2, which already had them.

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Also, it seems needlessly mean to actually call a distinction between games that were developed on the spring engine and those made on other engines.

Supcom 2 had area commands? Huh, didn't know that. Never actually played Supcom 2, I started it up. Played about 10 minutes, then deleted it.

I define major as.. Well it has funding (compared to ZeroK and such), is being advertised all over the place on Steam and such, has a large player base, a good active community including a modding community.

Really this definition was made up on the spot so there are probably A LOT of holes so don't take this as my true/complete opinion on what makes a Major RTS game, just what I could think of.

I know and that's why I tried to apologize. I definitely think that they are a game! It's just like the difference between something like an indie game vs a triple A Title. Both are games one is just well... Bigger? I don't know how to say it exactly, but I'm sure you know what I mean.

I truly try my best not to be mean/rude/inconsiderate, and I hope I haven't offended anyone :S

Then maybe you should redefine what you consider to be "major"; you seem to have some subconscious biases.

Just because it's indie, doesn't mean it can't have a major impact on the gaming landscape and it certainly doesn't mean that it can't outperform (from a gameplay standpoint) triple-A developments.

That's completely true! I'm just not entirely sure how to differentiate the two any longer, I'm guessing your definition is it has to have a major impact on the gaming, or it's genre in particular?

It had one, and that one you didn't really use that much because units shoot anything they drive by.

Ah, well I do know one area command that Spring DIDN'T have... Area build metal extractors, arguably one of the best and most useful area commands.

Oh... wow...

Play Zero-K. Please. And then stop talking.

Zero-K does not have area build metal extractors... It has something similar though, Zero-K is by far the most far along Spring based game as well.

What Zero-K had was a feature that when you placed a metal extractor it automatically made you set it on the nearest metal spot this was extremely helpful however not as helpful as what PA has done, in PA you don't even need to do that, just expand a circle over the whole planet or a specific area and you're covered.

Edit: I'm not that ignorant, I've played a lot of Spring in the past.

No. You can area build Metal Extractors.



It's in the "Orders" Tab.

For point of reference, holding ctrl+w then dragging out a circle in Zero K allows you to area-build mex's. Aside from hotkeys, and the non-linear scaling due to building on a sphere, the implementation in Zero-K is identical to the one in PA.

Stop getting tunnel vision on specific things, the issue here is not the severity or the similarity of individual items between PA and TA, but the big picture that PA has things worse than TA in regards to what is included in a 1.0 release. Think about it, was TA missing anything comparable to Offline Play or Ladders?

Mike

Then I stand corrected!

And you need to stop getting worked up over issues that were kind of expected to happen down the line.

Features get cut, it happens, and it's not like the dev's are any happier about it.

Technically nothing is getting cut(or at least so far nothing has been specifically cut that we know of) but things not being included in 1.0 are going to have an effect of the game's future, especially given some of the things that are missing and the effect's they've had on the game already or will have once 1.0 releases without them.

Mike

I think Uber may have put too much in simply because it is in TA. For example perhaps a game with 1000s of units does not need each of those units to have simulated projectiles. They are nice when your units are large and important but when you have massive swarms it could just be performance overhead. Don't get me wrong, I like simulated projectiles. They're just something that may or may not end up being a minor feature for the final game.

I can't really comment on current features because from what I read the current state of things does not sound all that good. So I am waiting for release.

As for the 'major game' thing try 'well known' or 'commercial' game. At this risk of furthering off topic I will leave this here... https://zero-k.googlecode.com/svn-history/r500/trunk/mods/zk/LuaUI/Widgets/cmd_area_mex.lua

You may find people disagreeing with you here
I even think projectile speed should be slower across the board to emphasize the effect of simulated projectiles.

But... but Jon made this:

I'm not saying that simulated projectiles are bad. It is an example of something from TA that may not be a good idea at the scale of PA. I like simulated projectiles but I do not want every game (or even every RTS) to have simulated projectiles. I prefer games to have a coherent set of mechanics which all have some meaningful impact on how the game plays.

The difference is between saying "I like this mechanic, lets figure out how to work it in with what PA is trying to do" and "I like this mechanic, lets slap it in and assume it will work". Now that I think further on this I think that individual expectations from the community are prone to the "slap it in" mindset and Uber has done a good job to resist a lot of it. Look at Shields, Races and extrapolating 'simulated' to 'simulated orbital'.

Simulated projectiles is probably too cool and iconic to not try to work in. Emphasizing them would increase the effect of jink micro in battle so perhaps it is good that in some situations they are mostly an aesthetic thing. Maybe they are fairly cheap to handle, I can't guess at their cost.

Don't agree with your conclusion at all.

Simulated projectiles are supposed to increase the impact of terrain and defensive structures like simple walls - not to allow manual dodging. Actually even simulated instant-hit projectiles would be perfectly fine for me.