Sniper Grapple...

Its not a fact of whether they deserve it or not. Its that the grapple itself is too strong.

A long range centered class utterly dominating a close range centered class in a close range fight when they both use the same move really shouldn't happen.

Just like a close range centered class utterly dominating a long range centered class in a long range fight should not should not happen.

The fix would be really simple, make the current level 2 grapple its level 3. make the new level 2 have the same damage as level 1 but have the knockback added.

The current level 2 is about the same damage as a frontal grapple from a katana assassin. That level of grapple is already pretty powerfull and should be fine for the sniper, especially when coupled with the knockback.

Um, do you not know that snipers have the same health as snipers?

Why is their grapple so much better then?

It is stronger than the gunners correct? It seems so to me but I hardly ever grapple.

I'm the one that said that

Out of all the grapples the sniper clearly has the best (worst to receive) if he spent $150. That's pretty broken. Part of the reason why it works is that the sniper moves very quickly (and the assault/assassin as well).


How often do you say oh no that gunner is going to run over and grapple me? Never right?I only try get melee grapple kills on people who are low health. It's the best way to add insult to the death. "Man.... I just got killed by a gunner's level 1 grapple."

Personally I'd like to see buying the melee grapple as a passive counter to other classes' grapples. For example: say as an assault you have your grapple at 3 and a sniper has his at level 2. Your grapple, being a higher level will throw him out. But if you grappled another sniper who had his grapple at three he would avoid the ring out portion. He would take the damage as usual and still might die anyway.

As much as I would like for the assassin's grapple to do less damage with this system, I don't think it should. But, I think it should take longer to get the kill (different animations) if you have a grapple skill leveled up. Or if you have your grapple skill leveled up maybe you can hit juice during the animation. That would be cool.

Such a system would make the gunner's grapple worthwhile.

I play sniper as an offensive push class. I rarely use the sniper rifle except for turrets and maybe gunners I have good distance on.

Even at level 3, the grapple will not kill armored supports, possibly unarmored gunners, and definitely not tanks (all at full HP). I believe armored assault will also lived through it. Because of assassin's especially, I find most decent players run with armor on.

Assassins/Snipers will live through a level 2 grapple with gold armor on too I believe.


The real question is, why are you letting a sniper get close enough too you? I've had games as a close quarter sniper that I've gone 6 and 20 because the players were aware of the situation and never let me get close. On the flip side, I've gone 22 and 6 on games where players weren't watching their back and didn't know how to use their skills to save themselves from frost trap -> grapple.

I don't think you can evaluate ability grapple's (I'm including Assassins because it has a recharge time and is upgraded as the sword is) in a vacuum, as you have to take into account all aspects of the class when judging them.

Example
Assault Grapple
Medium Health (Can take some damage while closing the gap)
High Mobility (Jetpack and speed)
Attached to a charge (even more closing speed)
Knockback
Only obtained upon Lvl 3 Purchase of Charge

Assassin Grapple
Low Health
Can be cloaked whiling attempting to grapple, can sneak up on people
Very Very fast, both in closing the gap and running away upon a failure to grapple
Strongest Grapple from the back
Second Strongest from the front

Sniper Grapple
Low Health
Average mobility (above average speed, but no charge or jetpack)
No ability to retreat on miss
Strongest Grapple from front
Traps can freeze in place if stepped upon (also drains skills at Lvl 3)
Knockback (Can be good or bad, depending on where they land)

Based on this, I wouldn't say that the sniper grapple is simply the best, due to mobility restraints and the lack of health. In a static situation where you are both standing next to each other and facing each other, then yes, it is the best. Additionally, it is good if they are frozen in place as an Assassin or sniper and have their skills drained, because they have no defense.

^^ You said that an Assassin is very good at running away if a grapple fails to kill, this is untrue vsing Assaults and Snipers, have to take that in effect too.

I don't see how that is untrue. Assaults are no match for a Assassin in speed, they have a charge but that is it. If an Assassin is running away visible and in a straight line maybe.

And sniping a retreating Assassin is very very hard.

However, it may be a good point that ability to retreat is variable depending on what you are facing. But you cannot dispute that the Assassin has the best ability to retreat of the 3, given that the Assault has already used up their grapple.

^^ What i meant was, say it ends up turning into a front grapple and it does not kill the Assault or Sniper. They can then use their charge and/or grapple and it was always hit the Assassin before they can run/smoke bomb away.

Ah, I see what you mean. Its true that a grapple that hits, but does not kill leaves Assassin the most vulnerable due to no knockback, and definitely should be taken into account. However, I've noticed more and more Assassins jumping diagonally backwards after a front grapple, as the hit box appears to not work as well if they do this, making charges slide off of them and sniper grapples not always hit.