Sniper: Body shot damage reduction

This: Sniper isn't broke, sniper got a nerf.

Can we see a assault moneyball damage nerf PLEASE before we fix something else that still isn't broken?

List of Invalid Complaints:

Sniper Headshots, "quickscoping" being as reliable as someone taking 20 seconds to line up a shot.
Assassin Grapple (lunge-grapple too).
Tank charge (charge-deathblossom).
Assault Mobility, Assault Rifle Damage.
Support Airstrikes, Support shotgun.
Gunner Weapons, lack of Gunner skills.

no matter what you say, he will argue, even lie to make his point, and when cornered, hell say "see if I care" "i'm done"

its like arguing with a wall, so why bother.

mortars cannot hit a sniper who is pressed up against unbreakable glass, the will either hit the glass or clear it by a distance further than their radius.

The only way to hit him behind glass if he is up against it, is to fire from an angle, and if you are firing from an angle guess what?

You are exposed.

Mortars are good for catching snipers out of position, or for lobbing as you move between cover, hoping he wont call your bluff on rather or not they will hit him, and simply take the shot.

They are powerful tool, the wreck turrets descimate pros, but they are not a hard counter to snipers.

What the hell does an assault nerf have to do with the topic at hand? You are freakin' crazy. And lemme guess, those complaints are invalid because you say so?

While not a hard counter I find that the mortar aimed so it lands on the GROUND near the sniper is an extremely effective soft counter/harassment tool. you may not be able to hit him or a wall, but if you learn the arc and/or splash radius its possible to use the mortar effectively against snipers, but its still not a OHKO that Bro tried to claim it was initially.

So much misinformation. Cody is very low tier in SSF4. If he does win at all - it's definitely not due to his rocks.

And no, mortar doesn't do that. It is good for sniper harass though, and that's often enough to keep him off focus to move your team into better positioning. Against a good PC Mouse-Using-Player, it's still a losing battle. If you kill/harass a sniper, it takes a lot less effort for him to go back to his most effective position. The converse is not true for all the classes except assassin. This is due to map/game design.

ok can someone please lock this? its starting to get off topic and probably get out of hand soon.

Why does bro even bother responding when he doesn't even play against pc snipers?

I think there was a stealth buff or something...because I wen 46-0 first game after the patch. No problems here, folks. Hey-yo!

Grats, more likely you just had bad enemies, and bad snipers now have to work harder (I know I myself make much more effort to headshot bots now) thus its easier for GOOD snipers to show that they are skilled.

Long post, in a long thread, that most people wont read. Don't worry, I won't take offense if you say you didn't. I'll just eat my ben and jerrys.

TLDR; I actually tried to avoid pub Snipers prior to this. But I've come to find that now I don't even have to pay attention to the majority of them as an assassin while pushing a bot lane, because I wear Gold Armor, and their bodyshot damage is puny compared to my health, and I know that a headshot is unlikely on a jump spamming, speedy assassin with a small head. Unless they show that they're Godly accurate, I just don't fear pub Snipers anymore.

That doesn't settle right with me. The bodyshot nerf needs to be reverted.
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Now for the long post! Grab some popcorn and take a **** before reading.

Snipers are garbage defensively. They're one of the few classes that have two skills that have nothing to do with helping them with their role. The biggest problem is, if the other team has ONE assassin, you're pretty much forced to dump 300-1400$ in abilities that don't really make you better, while still trying to get the level 3 passive up, which is the only one that does.

I know, some Snipers swear by level 3 flak, but I digress.

If we look at all the other activated skills, they all help the person kill either pros or bots much more effectively. Assassins smoke bombs help kill turrets and bots too. The only other purely defensive ability I know of is the level 3 gunner deploy, which hilariously enough, is meant to help counter snipers (which got an indirect buff by nerfing body shots). Yet the Sniper has 3 of them! Most use flak to reveal assassins or control an area. Icetraps control an area. And the grab is pretty much only used as a "get off me" move, which is most COMMONLY used on Assassins to stop their grapple, from what I've seen.

The Sniper didn't need a body shot nerf, because frankly, the Sniper Rifle is the only thing that gets them kills. With the occasional lucky flak, and grab. Their SMG is really only good at killing Assassins unless they're juiced, or running some form of accuracy (which is a wasted end slot IMO).

This isn't coming from a person who even uses Sniper. I play Assassin mostly, and in casual play, I've seen a guy that gets 3 K/D normally with a good number of bot kills, tank the next game, because I concentrate on them, and their defensive abilities just do not cut it against an (admittedly only above average) assassin. The traps are garbage. I can jump over them, or even lunge grapple through them. Snipers pick up Silver Armor JUST to avoid the face stab, only to get lunge grabbed to death if they're not quick enough on the spamming grab + spacebar key. It's almost impossible to if you lunge + grab them right as they're scoped. But the Sniper NEEDS to upgrade Grab/Traps (which he really doesn't want to do, because he needs the level 3 passive as soon as possible) just so that terrible Assassins don't wreck his **** too!

I just don't understand it. The body shots damage was not that big of a deal, especially if you ran some type of armor. I see average/above average snipers now having huge difficulty in killing above average assaults, because the good ones are constantly jumping around and jetting to avoid backstabs, and make them harder to hit. This makes them way too hard to headshot for the required skill of actually doing the technique. So, you go for bodyshots to whittle'em down. Most of the above average Assaults I see run gold or silver armor (usually gold armor/silver rof/bronze skill or accuracy. Gold accuracy/silver armor/bronze skill. Weirdest I saw was Gold Crits, Silver Rof, Bronze Armor), which meant that before the nerf, they weren't even dying that often to it.

As it stands right now, I think casual Snipers are struggling way to hard against classes which have huge mobility over them with this nerf. Namely the Assault and Assassin, especially when they use gold armor. All of the Snipers activated abilities are defensive in nature, so nerfing the only real killing weapon in their tool set is a kick to the groin that I don't think is justified. Sometimes body shots are the only way to put these classes down, because of how insanely difficult it is to get a clean shot, relatively to how difficult it is to make it hard for them to be hit. Spamming jump is NOT as hard as being zoomed in, and trying to line in a head shot in a game where you can't even set your own damn zoom sensitivity (and worse still, the sensitivity is DIFFERENT than what it is when you're unzoomed).

And yes, I know I'm going to get flak. I can hear the groans "UGH, SCREW THE TERRIBAD CASUAL SNIPER SCUM". But, honestly? That's just being an elitist. Most of the people who play MNC -are- casual. The competitive guys are in the minority, and rightfully so. The casuals are those that are going to keep the game alive, not the competitive guys. Maybe when the game is fifteen years older, and no one else but the competitive players are still at it, is when people can say crap like "screw the casuals", but it hasn't gotten to that point. For right now, the bodyshot damage is a bad nerf, and one that I don't agree with... And while above average to "good" Snipers will adjust, it's still not a good idea. They need something to to compensate.


I guess I understand that it was unfair to heavy classes that can't take cover right away... But why not just make it so that the two heavy classes get bodyshot reduction off of some of their less used skills? For example, put -20 or -30% bodyshot reduction on the Gunner and Tanks level 3 deploy. Gunner's level 3 Deploy is a lot more useful now that bodyshots can't kill you before you can undeploy... so why not just give it that, and revert the Sniper change? Same with Tank. I see most pick up the level 2 just for health regen. You don't see alot of gunners use deploy for anything else (except moneyball/lazer blazer camping) because they don't have an immunity to headshots.

Maybe make it so their traps float in the air instead of on the ground, so you can't just simply jump over them. Hell, make it so that you can't lunge + grab through a trap, or charge grab through a trap. That'd stop a lot of the grief I've been giving to otherwise well positioned, above average snipers.

Otherwise, I think Sniper is just way garbage, only countering two specific classes only moderately well, one of which overlaps with the Assassin. Yes, the Sniper can be "Godly" if the person playing him is really good with his accuracy, and can avoid assassins while not running armor or something like that. But most players aren't like that, and are going to really feel the sting of the change. Basically, stop catering to the elitists, and give the Sniper his bite back. As it stands, I haven't remotely feared any Sniper (even out in the open) on any of the pubs I've played. That shouldn't be the case. Even if I'm a high mobility class, I should feel like that, if I'm a dumbass, standing out in the open (maybe pushing a bot lane) running around, despite seeing that Sniper, I'm risking a good chunk of my health gone, or a headshot. Right now, I don't. I slightly feel on edge about a headshot, but given that I'm so fast, I've pushed bot lanes guarded by a Sniper, and shrugged off his bodyshots, because he can't effectively headshot an incredibly quick, jump spamming assassin very easily. All because I run gold end, and the bodyshot does pitiful damage relative my health now. This wasn't the case before the nerf. I actually tried to avoid Snipers prior to this. But I've come to find that now I don't even have to pay attention to the majority of them, unless they're godly accurate.

That doesn't settle right with me.

You shouldn't be able to kill an assassin as a sniper without being skilled, spamming bodyshots never should have killed you. Especially in gold armor

All I took from that (and I read it) was a cleverly disguised rant, to push for reverting the nerf.

Its more likely to me that you play sniper than assassin, because the last time I checked, explosive shot into a bot group while an assassin is trying to clear it, can chunk off half your health, and a single body shot will finish it.

Sometimes I want to play sniper.

I always headshot bots just because...but I noticed there isn't much of a reduction in damage by body-shotting them post-patch. However, body-shotting is "good" when juice farming with L3 passive.

Scathis, I'm almost positive this is going to be a 45 page troll fest about snipers unless you lock it. I agree with the first few arguments against the nerf and thats it. The rest of the thread was completely pointless.

^ Pretty much what goose said. Doesn't make me wanna stay on these forums here.

However, the nerf doesn't matter to me too much. Because with every bullet missed is pretty much wasted kill potential. You make the enemy aware and focus on you, which is what you don't want with sniper most of the time. So this nerf doesn't matter so much to me.