Should quick scopes at close range be possible?

Railgun doesn't hit the center of your reticle without accuracy gold or something of the sort.

The railgun also doesn't have a scope. In military shooter games an assault rifle has higher raw dps and ammo than the sniper weapons but the sniper weapons still have a justified place because with the ability to zoom in means you have a larger effective area to hit the target. This goes for games with and without one hit kills like Counter Strike and Brink respectively.

Brink was a waste of 12 dollars, in my opinion. ._.
/offtopic.

Maybe we are talking about a different game but Brink isn't out yet. http://brinkthegame.com/

Think he meant Breach.

Ah, that would explain it.

Offtopic: Brink has been on my wishlist for a while. If they can deliver on HALF of what they are promising in terms of the gameplay, and assuming that they allow for dedicated server support on PC (since it is 8v8 multiplayer it kinda NEEDS it.) then I think it'll be a solid title.

I already have it paid in full, plan to play quite a bit of it when it comes out. I miraculously got most of my friends to do the same on PC, so I'm set. I'll still play this of course, since I must always remember that when a tree dies, only the woodpeckers profit.

Oh, awesome! That's me in the first post! Yaaay!
I'd say leave quickscoping as it is but give other classes better means of dealing with snipers. Even silly things, like x2.5 vs. sniper modifier on a railgun and grenade launcher or reduced headshot damage to gunners (so gold armor gunner can survive a headshot with like 25 hp left).
Another thing I have to say, up close I'm deadlier than an assassin, that's wrong. I manage to quickscope after grapple 3/4 times, either mine or someone's grapple (except the ones that throw) and I don't care if it's a backgrapple or from up front. I have the same amount of health, but no cloak. Traps compensate that as a defensive mechanism since I drop one in front while on the run and people can't chase me through it.
Sometimes in pub games I literally roll over tanks by catching them midcharge and then headshotting. That tank worked so hard to avoid me, finally managed to get up close with his charge ready aaaaand... bam, dead.

Brink has promised no one hit kills. The Dev slams the kind of snipers that populate MNC in the something for everybody interview.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05auA-hwGUE

As long as MNC continues to have these mechanics that take away player agency it will bleed players.

Starting at 2:00 in the video: yes, yes yes. Especially the part where he says every time you die, you should be able to trace it back to something you did wrong.


One of the things that's been said about MNC is "every class is overpowered". And that's great when you're one of the above-average players in the game. But it feels like **** if you're in the other 80% of the game population getting stomped on all game. In addition to the 1-hit kills that really stand out, like the headshots, assassinations, and ringouts, a LOT of kills in MNC just happen in the blink of an eye.


It would be interesting to see how the game played if the stats were changed to try to cut the total number of kills by something like 50%. Double everyone's health, do something to reduce the number of ringouts (less knockback on abilities, less knockback and longer cooldowns on ejectors). Getting 30 kills feels great, but dying 30 times makes people give up.



Disclaimer:
I personally LIKE games with quick kills because I'm good at them. I played a ton of Action Quake2 where any headshot is a kill and the assault rifle could kill in 2 chest shots. One of my favorite fighting games was the original Bushido Blade, where fights ended with one well-placed swing.

As cool as Brink is, and as fun as it looks, the word carebear seems to pop into mind. Now, I'm not gonna say that every game should be hard to pick up and have a stupid skill curve, but I like a challenge. And to be completely honest, it doesn't take more than a week of education to pick up mnc. When I first started the game, i was not sure what the hell was going on. I was dying all the time and I thought it was stupid. As I played more however, things started to make a lot of sense to me. Now, almost every single death has a reason. Its not just Deus Ex Buttfuk.

You were in the lane and you got ejected, well...
You got rung out by a grapple, well...
You got backstabbed for the 10th time, well...

All of these things have an explanation and very few things are left to chance. Not even spam can kill with any reliability. Sniper headshots are probably the the only exception. But even that is a bit of a stretch. I mean yes, a good sniper can make an entire team of players his bitch, but good players know how to at least deal with it. If you are playing a fatty class, it might mean that until the sniper leaves his nest the only thing you are allowed to do is kill bots and players defensively.

That being said, I really hate that the simple presence of a good sniper is enough to keep people from walking out of their base. He might not even need to actually kill anything, but just him being there is enough to scare other players. There is no good way to balance this though. If you nerf headshots, nobody will play sniper. The class is a pain, but nothing new in shooters imo.

The thing is, is that players have no incentive to stay when there is a huge amount of choices and alternatives. Brink stands to retain an audience because it's all about giving the player information. Monday Night Combat is arcane with terrible documentation. Yeah it takes you a week if you go to the forums and read the wiki but the vast majority of players don't do that for any game ever. In TF2 you still see snipers running around with the Razorback and syndney sleeper even though those weapons are obviously bad with or without reading the forums.

Consequently you'll still have people playing the sniper no matter what you do with it for the same reason that people flock to assassin.

The best solution is to ensure that there is no wrong choice by making a balanced game. Something MNC is NOT. Like I said before toning down the sniper is the least painful decision. Otherwise you have to seriously redesign the maps or give the other bullet classes high powered bullet abilities like in other shooters. In other words let Assaults and gunners hose down snipers from across the map with their guns in the same way a T can kill an AWP using CT with his ak.

The vast majority of players are lazy slobs. Amirite? A game that caters to carebears is not a game I would play.

Sniper has been toned down already, I feel it's quite balanced, especially considering that "good" assassins will spam Shurikan at the Sniper, preventing him from killing pros, rather than running into a trap and getting grappled. The word "creativity" comes to mind when there is a particularly powerful threat. It's a shame the vast majority of players lack that too, otherwise we wouldn't have threads like these. At the very least, ask for a counter to a class.

Even if it looks like it'll potentially have one of the most customizable class-based systems in the genre?




The problem is that an answer to "what did I do wrong" being "Entered the sniper's LoS when he happened to look in that direction" is not only inherently unsatisfying, due to the design of MNC's maps it's almost completely unavoidable. The degree to which it is depends on the map.


And I don't care how skilled they are. They could be God themselves in the flesh. It's still unsatisfying and not very fun.

The vast majority of players play to have fun and not be randomly violated by
[Generic Clan Tag]UrMomSuckz69. People don't mind losing if they can trace what they did wrong. Like the dev for Brink says as long as they feel they can do better next time they'll continue having fun.

The problem with killing snipers is that it's a lot of effort for little effect. The other day on Steel Peel Zutsumi was on the on the other team as a sniper standing in his spawn on the ground next to the bot room. Once I was jumping around trying to blow up bots in the air and got plugged in the head. Then later I saw a fat support standing still and he missed. Move/don't move it doesn't matter in the end because it's like an RNG. So I snuck around the long way to the spawn hit him with a bomb and charged him for a kill. By the time I got back to support my team he was already in the same spot killing people. By the time we lost he had like 25 kills and one death. Other than being a jerkass and depriving him of an undefeated tag I didn't DO anything.

Prior to this another problematic sniper on Ammo mule one Charlie Sheen I harassed the whole game.

Let me preempt this by saying I'm not bragging nor is my screenshot collection an attempt at braggin only a catalog of games I felt I did my best in for my own personal journal.

http://steamcommunity.com/profiles/76561197971151297/screenshot/594680945482803107?tab=public

I tried to kill him everytime he came out and was successful for maybe 15 of those times and he still managed to kill TEN people. The whole match was consumed by this sniper. You kill a guy and he's back to get to the action in a few seconds. For a tank he was to waddle his way back to the action. For a sniper everything he sees is in "action." To shut down a good sniper you have to devote every moment to murder him, effectively making the match 5 v 5. This is utterly ridiculous.

HAH, it's the "aimless spam" guy!

He kept repeating that same crap a bit ago when I was pounding him with mortars all over the place. Ironic thing is he's a gold RoF sniper that just "aimless spams" until he lands a lucky headshot.

I don't see why you're complaining. From what I see, you prevented the Sniper from killing all your teammates, he only got 10 kills compared to your 28. You earned more money, killed more bots, got 2 deaths, and yet you still insist on complaining? Well excuse me if you can't carry your team while dealing with another (possibly) skilled player.

The difference is that the sniper is the only one that requires such a huge amount of attention. If the other team has a good assault, you don't have to deal with him ALL the time, just when he comes near you. Same for pretty much every other class.

The complaint comes from the fact that the sniper can potentially OHKO anything he can see, and on some maps that provides a ridiculous amount of killing power. The Assassin, the closest analogue to the Sniper, has to run back from their spawn to melee range to (maybe) assassinate you (if you're not wearing armor and they don't get ganked before the animation finishes and there's no support healing you the whole time). Killing a sniper earns you 8-10 seconds of them not standing at their perch in their base behind their traps and turrets, and unless you're playing a sniper or are in a very good spot with a gunner/assault, you often can't avoid being an open target for a headshot (or worse, a quickscope at point-blank) or other pros, bots, turrets, etc. If you want to challenge a sniper, you have to constantly spam projectiles his way to keep him suppressed. Killing him does very little unless you consistently kill him, which means repeatedly braving the other team's defenses. Think Grenade III.

A 1-1.5 second delay while the scope animation plays and the scoped view comes up during which accuracy slides from base+endorsements (if any) to the scoped 100% would work just fine, IMO. Stay scoped if you want to quickly headshot anything that moves.

The problem is that by design of the maps and how respawns work the sniper is not punished as much for dying as other classes, and he is less likely to die anyway.

Sniper would be fine if the game had more line of sight breakers on maps, and forced the sniper to have to travel more often to be effective. As it is, he has the shortest distance required to travel thanks to the long sight ranges provided by the huge amounts of open areas, and most of the time he is able to either see any threats approaching before they become a viable threat, or is so far back that to attack him would require doing so while being attacked by several turrets.

Sniper is pretty close to balanced when viewed in a vacuum where issues such as map design, respawn times, turrets, and other factors not directly attached to the sniper are ignored. The thing is that any nerfs to the sniper would only soften the issue of the class rather than addressing the actual problem.