Should quick scopes at close range be possible?

You seem to specifically struggle with snipers quite a lot going by what your saying here. Honestly I would only say you should try to find the best sniper you can on this forum who can get on a server with you at decent ping and just play against him, talk to him and figure it out. They are not gods, they are men and men can get blown up by awesome bomb throwing drunks and assaults alike.

(or you fire a product grenade and get a warm feeling knowing someones getting a really really nice view of your delicious products.)

Liking the fatalism zarakon, go on.

Before I forget to mention, did it ever occur to you that they are higher skilled than you or is your ego blocking you from that view because it's easier to blame it on a OHKO mechanism?

these threads always get out of hand im shocked its still open, im guessing uber is watching it closely though since there have been so many, my view is that it doesn't really bother me, leave it in, if they have the skill they should be able to do it, its not super easy as everyone makes it out to be.

but im a new pc gamer, what would i know right?

Here's a short vid I took today in effort of practicing the grapple/quickscope video.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YH7yjddrvko

All I can say is, it requires some setup, and is best used if fast turning is minimal, the combo is nice to do but grapple 2 yields more safety vs sins at that range, if the setup fails and you miss headshot, you = dead like me in end of video lol.

Solve the one hit kill problem and there's no need to worry about quickscopes.

Skill should be rewarded yes but that goes both ways. The guy being sniped should be rewarded for defense moves as well. The problem is, is that the sniper's skill supersedes all others. To reuse my earlier example in the other thread: give every class perfect aim. The sniper is the only one that is impossible to dislodge.

In MNC all the characters duel one another for at least a little while. The sniper however has the ability not only to duel but to end fights immediately. It's out of character for the game. It may have made sense in the console version where it was not very likely but, with the addition of the mouse and various outside helper programs of varying morality it's a major issue.

I can't quite agree with that last post.

Something doesnt sit right with me but i cant put my finger on it.

It is the fact that unless you are running armor thre are a number of 1hit kills on weaker classes.

I still don't get this logic that because snipers have huge potential, every sniper everywhere is totally breaking the game. It just is not happening that way, not one sniper is that dominant. Have you considered how powerful a rate-of-fire tank with an aimbot is? and that's on top of his considerable close range power. Better nerf all tanks because there's a possibility that one day one golden perfect child will be able to roll out 100% accuracy.

Also I disagree that a perfect sniper would be unbeatable. Grenades bounce. Bombs arc. and the assault has the better mobility, on at least a couple of maps a perfect accuracy assault would beat a perfect accuracy sniper.

I just think it's a part of shooters people need to learn. Its easy with shotguns, you see a shotgunner you stay the hell away from him because you know if you get too close you will die. People don't approach snipers properly, they see a sniper and they neglect him, or they try to fight him at range or any number of wrong answers. That rifles pretty good at range guys. Its pretty damn good at range.

If there's a sniper in the distance then pretend he's standing next to the gunner 10 feet away because he's just as deadly and you really really need to get out of there.

This is basically what happens 99% of the time. Sniper's aren't boogeymen, you can't just wish they weren't there.

I'm staying out of the argument for now, but I gotta say if you make more MNC videos I'd be hard pressed to not subscribe. That's sniper play on a level I haven't really seen on youtube thus far.

Just give the railgun pin point accuracy and everyone will be happy.

Look through the hacker report list. I recall seeing an aimbotting tank but it's the sniper aimbots that get the insane scores. An aimbotting tank gives you time to get to cover. A sniper aimbot gives you no time. Consequently it's the class preferred to by rage hackers. There are prediction bots for projectile weapons but they are not "perfect" because the other person still sees the projectile and can move out of the way even if the computer can calculate exactly where they will be when the weapon is fired it can do nothing if they move after as it has no influence on the objects current flight path. And most of the time it's not exact anyway as shown by these bots walking in a straight line.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd3BLj3owDE&feature=related

Not super interested in how well hackers perform to be honest its not an accurate display of how strong a class is. I was just making a point that the tank is an extremely good and powerful class at close range already with a very good long range weapon at his disposal if you have the aim to use it. Compared to the sniper who is so easily killed at close range quick scoping or not if one of two people gets some hits on him he falls over. Tanks a more powerful class in general but people don't moan because they think of him as an avoidable hazard. People seem to think snipers are unavoidable. I am saying those people are wrong.

For the sake of repeating this. No one is as perfect as a computer at aiming and if they are then they are one of a kind and don't deserve punished.

Hackers demonstrate the ultimate skill ceiling of the class that people who build their skills normally approach to but can never truly reach being only human as you pointed out. How they perform IS a good indicator of class balance however because it demonstrates which setup has the highest power. Two hacking assaults see each other from across the map, they can't do jack to each other yet. Two hacked tanks see each other and they trade blows equally. Two snipers, and one of them WILL explode.

For the sniper to be balanced it must be brought to the dueling level that every other class takes a part in. That means no headshot kills. The alternative is that the assault gets Call of Duty aim and no fall off damage, likewise for the gunner. And the support can call it's airstrike with a laser pointer.

Taking out headshot kills removes the whole point of the sniper. If you're so butthurt over them, create/join a server that disables Snipers.

Cant agree that hacks show a perfect example of a class, the way a player moves, controls spacing, judges pushes, prioritizes targets, all of these things are vital and are related to a classes abilities and weaknesses. An excellent and experienced sniper with an aimbot might be closer to what your looking for.


There's not really a response I can give you that's going to convince you headshots and quickscopes are fine. But I would say watch Zutsumi's videos. He plays sniper as well as your likely to meet and in a fashion similar to most of the best snipers around. Takes lots of shots, doesn't worry about hitting every single one and kills people frequently. But I want you to pay attention to how often he misses and how difficult it would be for him to fight off even 2 people on the enemy side of the map, which is where short range quick scoping would put a sniper.

Can Zutsumi improve that play and get better? Yeah! And that sniper would still die pretty easy if he over extended himself.

People have made successful SMG/Grapple oriented builds right here in these forums. The old bodyshot damage was so effective that snipers could kill with spam. So no this is incorrect. Being able to hit with a hit scan weapon from any distance accurately is a tremendous advantage.

@Skizzen: Believe it or not there are hacks for this too. ESP and radar overlays can provide all the information you need in lieu of gamesense.

And again all this demonstrates is that the sniper is the only one making any meaningful interaction in its combats. You don't win against a sniper; the sniper loses. If the classes were truly equal in their capabilities you would see a balanced set of hackers. Instead they all go sniper because they can shut down any opponent easily and immediately.

If you did this change, then why would anyone choose sniper over tank. The Tank's railgun would be superior to the rifle sans the scope and add 6 more rounds.

Can't argue the snipers don't have the highest skill cap, and that can be seen with aimbots, but does that honestly matter? A perfect sniper is nigh impossible, it takes precision, reaction time, and awareness far and above what a human can emulate. You could say the Snipers are OP if they are perfect, but they aren't perfect and they probably aren't OP.

Balance the game and what does happen, not on what "could" happen. If all high-level players start picking up sniper, then go ahead and nerf his skill potential (or buff the other classes skill potential), but don't preemptively nerf a class because it might be strong.

Actually the sniper rifle scoped does 170per shot, plus 170 explosive damage to nearby targets. The railgun does 149 damage. The larger clip size would make them pretty much equal as in those 4 shots the sniper is going to do about as much as the tank could do in 8-10shots.

That being said, having the tank's railgun be equal to the rifle would be stupid as the SMG is most certainly not equal to the jetgun. And the railgun is the secondary weapon and the rifle is the primary.