Should Pelicans return to T1?

I don't think the currently system as a whole really needs Pelicans anyway.

What's so important about a transporter shouldn't be the gain in speed, it's the ability to bypass otherwise impassable obstacles or at least to open shortcuts which are no open with the units native movement layer. That sounds a lot like a portal, that's true. But it differs in one important way: A transport is deployable. A portal is set up once, it doesn't allow for a quick "mountain hopping".

That opens a different question: Should a loaded Pelican actually have the same movement speed as an empty one? Or shouldn't it rather be slowed down to roughly the embarked units speed? So that the Pelican would be fast to deploy where needed, but only suited for tactical short range transports.

It's not that easy though, the issue isn't so much the mechanics, but the fact that a real transport isn't really required in PA the way maps are designed. There are no long passages you could break by using transports, no natural obstacles which couldn't be bypassed easily. The only obstacles we have a player made, and even then it's much easier just to break through than to use any smarter method.

And on it goes, like: What are we supposed to do with a single unit transport anyway? The only units worth something when deployed alone are scouts and fabbers, and both already have flying representatives.

I take it you were not a fan of the vanguard drop tournaments in Gamma? Some of the most dynamic and interesting gameplay I've seen in PA yet. I believe transports have a definite place here in bypassing fronts, striking where least expected, etc.

They were used because they were fast, so you could eliminate the chance for countermeasures. Not because the map would have made them necessary. But stripping your opponent of the *chance* to react isn't good game design, it's just frustrating. Deployment time is essential for T2 units since they have special mechanics and counters. A transport may eliminate the cost implied by difficult terrain, but it mustn't allow units to be omnipresent. A portal dropped on the front lines is already bad enough, given how quick they are to set up, but at least there are multiple ways to deal with them and they still obey to the rules as they require fabbers to be present - units which are rather easy to intercept in time.

Actually @matizpl famously completely shut down @godde's epic level vanguard drops simply by watching radar and intervening with interceptors. The map made them necessary because the number 1 resource in PA is attention - you simply cannot attend everywhere. Drops opened up more 3-dimensional play; feint a forward land attack and while your opponents attention was elsewhere drop vanguards on their power or com. Good scouting and map awareness made drops relatively easy to counter (they could be completely wiped out by just a few fighters). Doubly so if the drop time bug is fixed. Drops are also expensive and cost you mass at your front line, so they are a high risk high reward situation. Hardly omnipresent or uncounterable as you argue.

a simple and cheap aa turret would solve this problem

Buff defences. Don't act like defences are okay right now as long as none of their counters get buffed. Turrets are not okay right now, they need a buff. For their current cost, more range. Or same power but cheaper. Just, don't pretend the current vanilla balance is good.

I agree the turrets need a buff, the point I was making is that you should also build anti air and not only PDs to defend. Who's pretending? Never said they were super balanced and do not need any attention lol.

I build AA!

I just stuff lines of the towers here and there to catch all the flys that slip past my flock.

Only if you can't move your Com on T-1...
it's OP

How is it op? You'll die to one fighter in a split second.

Okay, so it is OP, and risky. In actuality, it will probably get people doing it, then people will do nothing but air-first to get fighters out trying to catch pelicans. Then it will just be a triangle of risky rewarding strategy and/or catching it. Especially since bombers are fairly good against the other main meta, dox.

Commanders prob shouldn't be moveable with pelican.

It used to be OP in things like 3v3s where you could near insta-build an air factory with 3 commanders and then rush your opponents one by one, with all 3 of your teams commanders. Even then it was a bit dodgy, and it worked because your opponents couldn't put up air factories because they'd all gone bots or vehicles first and didn't have enough eco for an air factory until later on.

Now that the commanders have so much more income, it's a huge waste of resources to have all 3 commanders flying around and not building at the start, AND your opponents are more likely to have an air factory up quicker, AND fighters are used a lot more now so the Pelicans are more likely to get shot down, AND at some point pelicans were slowed down so they couldn't run from fighters anymore, AND now the commander has really long range AA it's really risk to try to drop near one.

Oh and since Pelicans were moved to T2, a load of units have had movement speed increases, so there's even less point of using them now.

Okay one last thing! Dox can shoot air, and Pelicans are slow enough that they're really vulnerable to Dox fire, and (nearly) everyone spams Dox.

I'd like to see this turned into a "Pelicans should be T1 and they should be buffed as well" thread.

Could you explain how loading commander is op at all? What could you do that would be 'imba'?

Why do you need to go air first or do nothing but spam fighters?

*edit*
And in addition to what @burntcustard said, commander now has long range aa missiles. Dropping commanders in someone's base for a gang bang won't work.

Why? I don't see how the commander rush could possibly work now.

Eh, tbh, there is a lot of legacy changes that stack up here, you ARE right.

Commanders have AA now, they didn't in pelican era. However, it isn't long enough.

HOWEVER, commander has ubercannon nerf on structures. They can't simply gangbang a base and crash a commander anymore based on that more than anything.

In light of that, pelicans would still be annoying for flame tank rushes, especially if you distract the AA first to get just 4 flame tanks within inescapeable range.

Commander rushes relied on crippling your opponent's energy. You can't do that anymore, so the rush won't work. Your commander is now also your primary source of unit production, so moving him at all is extremely risky. The commander has AA. Dox can shoot air. Ground units which can shoot air all move faster.

And tbh, even that "ubercannon nerf against structures" needs to be revoked as well as the t2 pelican. Because structures got 3x more health, and the ubercannon nerf came first with .5 damage. It can go back, and still be harder to destroy structures with ubercannon than prior.

Well if you can take 2 Commanders at the face of only one Commander you can wreck him
Of course it's risky, but it's possible!

Yep defenses need a definite buff. I say put the transport back to t1 but don't let the commander ride in it.