Shammas' Competitive MNC Guide (11/18/13)

Seemed like the best word. You agree I see.

I miss peachypony and teapot...

I think we should expand this topic and make this thread the most detailed private match thread. The information you posted is good but maybe if we go over some of the more frequent scenarios we will be able to see some improvement. The X formation part is good, but let's talk about how to set that up, and when to set that up. Let's talk about how to break the X formation if the enemy is set up in it. How do you break out of specific maps with each class?

Let me know if you want me to type up some **** and send it your way.

This entire thread could be abridged in one fell swoop. If you lose, think why. If you die, think why. If you respawn several times with little success, do something different. If you notice others who do well on certain classes, see what they do that works and replicate with your own twist. If you are struggling and need help, speak up. If you are responsible for bots and die without having cleared bots, speak up. If you think this community will ever have a large scale pow wow to openly discuss the intracacies of this entire game and freely exchange ideas open mindedly, accept beginners with low potential with open arms, and dance hand in hand under a rainbow after every PM session you are delusional, new, or both.

I don't think you've seen just how many new/inexperienced people have played over the last 2 months. You're "ask why" advice is great and all Confucius, but these aren't your normal critical thinking players. I think a huge step up for most players would be to just talk non stop about in game call outs. Calling out everything is visually paints a good picture for the entire team, and allows players to start setting up or positioning themselves for a push without having to visually see each class for themselves.

I still think specific tips/tricks are a good way to go. Like playing on Steel Peel and getting trapped in your base... What are various tips and tricks that classes can do to break out from a spawn trap set up or them camping on our landing? It seems obvious that you need to break out, and it's always a good guideline to follow the "order of operations" but players still fail to execute. I BARELY play sniper in PM's or in pubs. As dumb as it sounds, my ice trap placement isn't as good as others because I usually forget to place the traps on the bottom jump pad. I can't be the only one who forgets these things.

Have the assault throw a bomb 3 onto the landing via the opposite jump up to bomb their support, and sometimes their sniper depending on where they're standing. Separate them and call it out. Either finish the support or target the sniper if they're still containing your landing via ice traps. A lot of times the assault can create the opening play for the team to push out.

Have the gunner watch for mismatches, and change up the side of the landing you push from. I'm not as experienced as other gunners, but I dislike pushing from bottom more so than I do using the glass to jump up. Fly to the opposite landing and get the jump on their gunner and take control of your landing. Your assault should be with you helping to create the push. Ideally, the support and gunner will be dead on this push and you'll want to move up and focus on map control and keeping your players alive.

The sniper should get ice traps on the bottom jump pad on the edge, trapping players attempting to go up on the pad. You could also throw ice traps very high up onto our landing or the opposite landing and wait for a pick there. Flak can be throw up as well, and I like to throw it from the bottom right lane, up through the opposite landing window. The flak will usually hit the gunner, support and firebase. You want to communicate with the gunner and assault on your team discussing which players are down as well as your intention to push. At this point depending on how much map control you have, it's a good idea to push up. You may not always get to push and put ice traps on their landing, but usually can still get mid map control, and continue to throw ice traps on their bottom jump up/lanes etc. Again, I'm not the best sniper, so there may be additional tips.

I don't have the time right this second to finish writing tank assassin and support, but this is what I'm pretty much saying when I talk specifics. Steel Peel, getting your **** pushed in, what should you do? People understand they need to get out of their base, but they can't execute. We should be teaching players how to execute, not just what we would desire.

If players don't have the common sense to correct their own mistakes, they may not be able to improve very much.
On the Steel Peel subject, having your sniper, support, or assassin get juice is the easiest way to break out. Your assassin I think has the easiest time getting a pick there because they can sneak around and make something happen.

That first sentence may be true, but when I played solo in pubs when I first started I felt like I improved tremendously. It wasn't until PM's did I realize the complete change in gameplay. From there I did everything I could to improve, and constantly questioned myself and decisions upon making mistakes.

This is how a good, experienced, competitive player handles their thought process in gaming. It's second nature to me by now to multi-task mentally throughout years of competing. I honestly think it's an acquired skill, and not something thats easy to learn. It's also something that shows visually to me. Throughout all the gameplays I've watched, it's easy to tell when people are playing with tunnel vision. I attribute it to a lack of playing other games that required a multi thought process.

So if players aren't used to it, then you can't expect them to improve from having that mentality. It'd be nice if they could shift their focus more towards that mentality, but our expectations may be too high in that sense. It's what I've been saying in a lot of my posts. If you don't think these players are up to par or your expectations, you have to give them specifics and visuals, as well as explaining why you are giving that advice. You either accept that certain players aren't as quick in their decision making or critical thinking, or you can provide them with criticism in a way thats easy for them to digest.


Although technically it's easiest to push out once you get juice, there are going to be times when nobody has juice and the team is spawn trapped. I'd rather have a better explanation for new players to improve than wait for your sniper or assassin to get juice, and push with them. We can still give them tips/tricks to break out or take enough pressure off of your base allowing your team to get juice.

I wasn't aware that "asking why" or questions in general when one does poorly was critical thinking, I always figured that was common sense. Sure some people just don't care, that's fine. These people everyone attempts to mentor from scratch as if you were training a dog to shlt outside, if they can't be bothered to ask basic questions they don't deserve anyone's patience or sympathy

Asking why doesn't involve critical thinking, but answering your own questions does. It's not as simple as oh wow that juice tank just killed me when I charged at him, how can I improve? What seems like basic scenarios that you have picked up in your 3+ years of playing this game, may turn out to be complicated to the players who have >5% the experience of you. The most mindblowing thing to me is that you guys either don't understand this, or don't care, but still hope to get results.

Again, it can all be chalked up to that you guys have a certain standard for people to play at. It not only shows in game but it shows here on the forums. When they don't play to that standard, it becomes an issue, except nobody wants to offer help in an easy to digest way. I personally don't understand it, but I don't see how complaining for hours and belittling players are going to motivate them to improve. If someone could explain it, I'm all ears. What motivation does one have to play better for the kid who is just complaining non stop about him? To get them to shut up? Why bother when it's way easier to just give up and not care about the game anymore?

Look at the various players who have stayed with this game. What are their prior FPS experience? Have they played in a setting that involved high team chemistry, requires people to play selflessly, and involves an overall good field awareness? I personally don't think CoD builds those traits as much as other games, and recent Halos are a joke. We have people who come from fighting games, which doesn't involve this third eye type awareness, and others who I've only seen play minecraft/skyrim.

I just don't understand how people have such little patience and such high expectations, especially for the players that are inexperienced.

I've seen a few people say that these are for fun, and have no desire to improve. If I had to bet, I'd put my money on that statement being false. I'm sure players would be open for constructive criticism as well as tips/tricks if it was presented to them in a nicer way.

If we don't teach them that it's not alright to suck, then they'll just be content with not knowing to kill bots or heal people. And if they can't grasp simple concepts, then they simply aren't cut out for competitive games (99% of this community).

Things like common sense, awareness, knowing when to stay alive vs doing what you can facing inevitable death have been a part of my game since before my first PM and especially after my first PM. Players like jump johnson and superslayer who aren't coddled actually improve and can hang. players who cry on the forums who you take pity on still suck. Coincidence?

Sal played a huge amount of Halo 3, and from what I've seen could be better than you at it. Jump played other competitive FPS as well. They're also getting way better feedback than anyone else who tried. Yes, they understand how to take harsh criticism and apply it in game, because that's how the nature of FPS have always seemed to evolve.

I'm sure it happened way before Halo, but Zyo's created a his legacy out by playing with a similar mindset you guys have. He's the best, and there's no real reason that anyone can beat him, considering he has those same tools to win. So when he played with his team, all he did was yell at them for making bad plays or being out of position. He even refused to call players by their names. I'll look for the video if you want, but you can hear his voice cracking due to him screaming. "Player 1 why aren't you in position" "Player 2 your over extended"

It can work, but only for the extremely competitive that want to improve and are already experienced to criticism

There are way more factors than you guys realize. Like I've said they've been accustomed to self improvement in FPS. Self improvement through racing games takes a different mentality than Fighting, which takes a different mentality from FPS. I don't know if any of you hear have ever tried competing in fighting games... but you legit train. The entire thought process is different and if you grow up playing fighters, you aren't as exposed to the concept of shooters.

Like I said, it seems second nature to you guys, and it does to me. It's what I'm experienced with, ever since Goldeneye. It's a completely new experience for most players though.

It's not just in video games, it's how you approach life. Why not try and improve yourself and be the best you can? Why tell yourself you can't do something?

That part I honestly can't answer. I'm in the same boat as you guys in which I can feed off intensity just as much as I can feed off harsh criticism.

Because some people play video games for fun. I personally don't care. I'm probably in the top 50 of people and that's good enough for me. Some people literally don't care about video games and just utilize them as a time waster. I enjoy being in party chat with a bunch of my friends and having a challenge, however, when people start yelling and taking sh*t too seriously I tend to just laugh. If you want to take a game seriously that's your prerogative, I could care less about this game though and I play video games to have fun. If you treat them as real life I feel a little sad for you...

But that's the point. If you want to mess around then play public matches. Private matches are meant for competitive play.

No, private matches are meant for people to play with a group that they enjoy playing against and have a challenge. You don't understand the difference between "a challenge" and "entertainment." People play privates for different reasons. I know for a fact that some don't care about the outcome. I've laughed more in privates than i have in pubs, but only because of my teammates. I agree with the normal stereotype that privates are meant for competitive play, but in reality, the private match playerbase is pretty small for this game and I think that a lot of people want to have fun more then they want to improve.

In any other game (with a larger playerbase) I would completely agree with you though.

Private matches are way more fun then pubs. Pubs aren't fun when your biggest enemy is your team and the other team is made of 5 assaults.

Pubs are entertaining for stupid **** like sumo, grapple assault, melee assasin, suistrike/instastrike support. But privates are fun because they are an environment where you have a challenge but can still just hang out with your friends in party chat. If this was 2 years ago, I'd of been all with shammas on the competitive side of things. However, in a 3 year old arcade game, I don't think 90% of the people care about whether they win or lose


P.S. I cry myself to sleep if my gunner gets wrecked in PM's

P.P.S. My gunner gets wrecked in PM's.

Solid gunner.