Scale Megathread

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD POLL

I don't really know what you mean since I feel fighting across a planet, and eventually multiple planets. Is far more epic than a large 2d map. I am literally sending armies from one side of a planet to another, not from one sector in a zone to another. IMHO PA feels far more epic so far and there is still a long way for this game to go and it can only get more epic from here.

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD POLL

I"m not saying PA is not epic, i'm just saying it's not possible to compare scale between spheres and flat maps. if you read the thread you will find many people (including myself) stating the scale looks better in FA than in PA and would like PA to have the same scale.
This is just not possible(well not in the same degree of magnitude).

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD POLL

I don't just want another FA though. The biggest problem I had with that game was that the units scales were so small that most of the game took place looking at icon, where so far in PA I zoom out to the icon level to issue mass orders, but then zoom in on the action. Which at the moment feels like a great balance between the two.

By reducing the scale of the units I will lose the detail of looking at the units themselves. I don't want the unique look of the units to be lost due to scaling them down to where they just appear as a small metal blob (like in FA where I never really saw the detail of most units, if ever). Right now when zoomed in on combat I can easily identify each unit in play and even when scaling up a planet that wouldn't be lost, but by scaling the units down we would need to be able to zoom in closer to make up for the lose in unit detail due to being smaller.

The real solution would seem to be to scale up the planet features so that mountains(etc.) don't feel so small in comparison to units and structures.

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD POLL

It feels like the planetary features were scaled to make them look 'good' on the small planet size of the alpha.. but the reality is that they should have looked over-sized compared to the planet. So my vote goes with upsizing the planetary features first.

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD POLL

I do agree. This is for me the second alternative.
I especially think about mountains which are really bigger in biome concepts and i miss this in the current planets on which we're playing.
however, for naval factories/units, downsizing could help also.

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD POLL

I would love to see much smaller units and structures. I voted for the DECREASED option. I love how small units and structures are on the last screenshot. That would I prefer.

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD POLL

FAO: Jon and the team

I just want to try and summise what the general consensous of the discussion is thus far and my own personal feelings on the game in it's current state.

I'm an alpha backer who has, at most, played 4 or 5 games since alpha was released. I'm a long time Supreme Commander player (since original Beta) so I'm concerned if your struggling to win me over you're going to struggle with "outsiders".

My two major concerns over the game have been scale and control. Control over multiple bases on multiple spheres is still something we need to address, and is going to be a major issue regardless of what anyone says, but until we test it I'll reserve judgement on that. However like many in this thread have already stated - the scale feels wrong. 75% of your community agree with this assessment and you'd be wise to heed their concerns.

We don't think the scale is slightly off, we think it's majorly off. To clarify this is not necessarily an issue with the scale of the spheres themselves, more the sense of scale you get playing the game. The balance between buildings, units, and terrain is way out. Terrain I feel should be slightly bigger (20%?), and the units and buildings around 60% current size. This would effectively make the units look half size compared to their surrounding land features. I would probably also tweak the scaling speed when zooming to reflect the revised sizing. Being able to zoom out so quickly adds to the sensation of "smallness".

I want to just iterate with a few numbers now and an example from one of zaphod's youtube casts from the alpha:



If you assume this "planet" is 2km diameter. Something comparable to the actual sphere sizes in the game. This gives a surface area of ~ 40km square. (4*Radius*Pi^2)

This is a figure we're all familiar with in terms of Supreme Commander (it would be roughly equivalent to a 6Km x 6km map in SupCom terms, and yes I understand you can't directly compare the two values from different games but let's just run with it for the sake of this example assuming we're aiming to achieve the kind of "scale" supreme commander captures. So this would be a small map, which I suspect for PA this planet is.

Using my uber photoshop skills



We can roughly deduce at current scale a factury is 138m x 138m square (2000 / 14.5) - factories that fit across the diameter of the planet.

What I feel you should be aiming for is real world scale, on non-realistic planet diameter sizes. At least visually this would work and give the required sense of scale when playing.

As such the recommend changes would see factories ~ 80m long (large, but not unreasonable for gameplay considerations) and units in the range 8-15m.

I realise these numbers are all arbatory, but I wanted to try a give some sense of perspective of where you're currently at, what I'd hope the scale to be and a general sense of reasoning why this should help with the sense of scale.

Going a little further this means the planet's surface could be fully covered in 286 factories (4*7.25*pi^2) 7.25 is the amount of factories in the radius. If we square root this number you get 17. Do you think you could cross the height or width of a square SupCom 5km map in 17 factories? That's the equivalent scale we're looking at currently in terms of building scale and virtual surface area.

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD POLL

The scale is also somewhat off from the kickstarter visualization

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/659 ... ration-rts

Besides scale I noticed a few other nice things:
1) commander (below tank factory) is more appropriately sized
2) huge swirls in terrain
3) small lights on all buildings (not shown in screenshot)

+100

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD POLL

1+ for both posts above me. You got my vote.

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD POLL

So I was curious how many factories could theoretically fit onto a SupCom 5k x 5k man....33 x 33 = 1089 factories.

Taking my approximation of 286 factories possible in a roughly equivalent sized PA map, and then reducing their footprint to 36% current size (60% size in both x / y directions = 36%

You'd get a total theoretical limit of 794 factories. Which definitely brings it more to the same scale. Obviously I've estimated the diameter of the planet etc, but the rough claculations based on factory size as a reference point for the size of everything else seems more in-line with what we'd expect!

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD (with poll)

Ok well I think we have succeded in making things astoundingly clear and in light of cptwhite and veta's posts above I think all we need now is to just get people to come over here and vote.

As for the poll I'm cosidering rebooting it with a "much much smaller" option, does this seem like a good idea? I posted the state of the current poll at the top of the first post so that it would not be forgotten in any case.

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD (with poll)

At the current alpha build, I honestly like the scale Uber is trying to convey: how one can see their buildings (especially metal extractors) extend out into a planet's atmosphere from the curvature of the planet's surface, making it look like you've built awesome megalithic cities even from a moderate zoom level. However, I also think that the size of some of the largest units, buildings, and terrain doodads could be experimented with during the alpha.


Maybe Uber will allow lower zoom levels during future updates so players can better view (for example) scampers or skitters which are some of the smallest units. Actually, that may also be a crucial factor for players to consider: how far down will you able to zoom in future game builds to see the tiniest units duke it out with/get slaughtered by the largest units? Currently, I wish I could zoom in farther on some of the small bots.

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD (with poll)

"M" for my azerty keryboard allows freecam, wich allows you to go al the way down to the ground and even below. try whatever key is the free cam key for you "F" and "R" alllow me to get closer to the ground and back out in freecam mode.

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD (with poll)

I just happened to see the "for the kicks" image in the OP.

Damn, that looks good!

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD (with poll)

That's cool! I didn't know that you could do that. Kinda makes it awkward though if you want to get a quick, ground-level view of your bots while they're in combat. Also I noticed that when I exit out of the freecam, I get some bugs (at least for v.50355). Some of my UI permanently disappears and my UI commands (Ex. Attack, Repair, Reclaim) aren't click-able unless I start up another game.

I'm still hoping for a slightly lower default zoom level.

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD (with poll)

as am I

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD (with poll)

Same here, as I said before, the current lowest zoom settings on PA does kind of disappoint me. I feel I have been ruined a little by the awesome zoom level on Supreme Commander! Now any game that doesn't zoom in as far doesn't feel far enough

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD (with poll)

if it zooms out from the solar system all the way to the galaxy then yea, we're talking

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD NEW POLL !!

NEW POLL please participate any and all!

Re: SCALE MEGATHREAD NEW POLL !!

I absolutely love the scale of x0.30. It seems MUCH more fitting to the trailer, and makes the terrain features so much more massive.

That said, I'm sure that with bigger planets, the bigger terrain will exist similar to the trailer. With the smaller buildings, (but a similar close zoom as we have now), I think the scale we're looking for really could be achieved, but I don't know if it's smaller units, or larger mountains. Is it possible to rig the terrain to be bigger than they are now and leave the buildings as-is to create a type of.. you know.. opposite path to the same result?

The only worry I have with that in particular is that mountains will look too massive on the planets, and it will throw the entire scale off.