[REL] War Turtle

Discussion in 'Released Mods' started by robintick, August 22, 2015.

  1. robintick

    robintick Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]

    This is a mod I really made for myself, but I'm curious to see if there's any other turtly players who would like it.
    I mostly play turtle style and against AI.

    When playing PA I really miss the powerful defensive options from games like Total Annihilation and Supreme Commander, I feel like in those games the defences wiped the floor with armies of the same tech level, and PA just doesn't have this level of base defences.

    In vanilla PA you use your armies to attack, and to defend, because base defences suck.

    What really annoyed me was the tiny range advantage of turrets vs mobile units, this meant that it's almost impossible to hold down area's with turrets because it's too easy to drive around them and stay out of range, so lets double that range.
    The firing range for laser turrets and anti-air turrets is now beyond their own range of vision, so you need radar coverage to put their full range to use.

    Next units like the Inferno and Vanguard are too good at tanking turrets, but I like the balance of those units vs other units, so I doubled laser turret rate of fire, and thus DPS.
    The inferno and Vanguard are still tanky vs turrets but now the turrets are not totally useless.

    Then there's artillery, which in Supreme Commander would fire clear across the map, I doubled Pelter and Holkins max range, and since their area-of-effect damage is pitiful I also made their aim perfect, left the damage as is.
    Pelter range is beyond basic radar range, and Holkins range is beyond advanced radar range, this is interesting because you can get fire support for your mobile units in the field because they serve as spotters providing target data for the artillery installations in your base, but there's no "free" shelling of the enemy base without intel, so shoot down those planes and radar sats ;)

    Doubled the anti-orbital range of the Umbrella, which looks awesome, and helps keep away those pesky radar satellites that would otherwise help the enemy shell your base with those artillery pieces.

    Doubled the anti-nuke range because they are expensive enough as is.

    This very much changes the balance of the game, now you use your armies to TAKE area, and put down base defences to HOLD area, as it should be.

    Update 2015-09-13
    Server mod version 0.012
    Client mod version 0.005 (unchanged)

    Changes:
    All three laser towers now fire in a low ballictic arc, meaning they shoot over a hill instead of into the hill if there is an enemy unit behind it.
    Effective range is should be the same.
    The projectile speed had to be lowered from 500 to 150 which does look a bit odd for lasers.
    I might change this back to straight-line lasers in the future, not sure yet.

    Update 2015-09-12
    Server mod version 0.011
    Client mod version 0.005

    Changes:
    New unit, the Anti Ballistics defense turret.
    This basic defense turret shoots down enemy tactical missiles fired from the catapult bluehawk and advanced bomber, and intercepts artillery shells fired by the pelter holkins and sheller.
    The unit costs 1000 metal, I haven't really done any balance testing so if you think the metal cost or it's effectiveness is way off let me know.
    It can defend against 4 capatults at the same time, or about 5-6 pelters.

    [​IMG]

    Update 2015-09-04
    Server mod version 0.010
    Client mod version 0.004 (unchanged)

    Changes:
    Engineering station has slightly updated model, now includes a light.
    Engineering station has new texture, now less crappy.

    Update 2015-08-27
    Server mod version 0.009
    Client mod version 0.004

    Changes:
    Installing from PAMM now works reliably, I promise not to remove the zip files from Dropbox again :rolleyes:

    Update 2015-08-22
    Server mod version 0.008
    Client mod version 0.003

    Changes:
    - Updated to be compatible with the Titans expansion, I think it should work for classic PA still too but I'm not going to make any effort supporting classic.

    - Push class changes are gone because push class itself is actually disappeared from the game.

    - AI behavior changes are gone because AI files got changed, I'll try and get the build behavior changes back in a next version of the mod, so for now AI is actually unchanged by the mod.

    - Engineering Station now has a model, many many thanks to @zx0 for taking the time to teach me modeling and texturing.
    You may recognize the base of the AA turret and the nanolathe of the Advanced combat fabber, because that's what they are :D

    [​IMG]

    Previous version:
    Server mod version 0.007
    Client mod version 0.002

    Details:
    Set area build separation to 0 for these structures, that means building them in a line now makes a tight row, all mobile units can fit in between and move through the row:

    - Single laser turret
    - Double laser turret
    - Advanced triple laser turret
    - AA turret
    - Flak turret
    - Torpedo launcher
    - Advanced torpedo launcher

    Double range for:

    - Single laser turret (200)
    - Double laser turret (220)
    - Advanced triple laser turret (240)
    - Basic AA turret (300)
    - Advanced AA flak turret (200)
    - Torpedo launcher (400)
    - Advanced torpedo launcher (420)
    - Umbrella (anti orbital range only) (600)
    - Basic Artillery (Pelter) (also perfect aim) (520)
    - Advanced Artillery (Holkins) (also perfect aim) (1200) range is now beyond T2 ground radar btw.
    - Basic combat fabber nanolathe (80)
    - Advanced combat fabber nanolathe (150)
    - Basic AA vehicle (200)

    Double rate of fire (and thus DPS) for:

    - Single laser turret
    - Double laser turret
    - Advanced triple laser turret

    Buff up commander:

    - Give commander the max movement speed of a fabrication bot (12)
    - Ubercannon automatically fires on all targets of opportunity including aircraft, manual fire still works too.
    - Commander slowly regenerates health, not enough to really tank damage, benefits the AI the most, players are smart enough to repair their commander.
    - Commander can build every basic structure.
    - Raised commander push class to highest, so all other units get pushed aside when the commander is coming through.

    Changes to storage:

    - The metal storage structure now stores 10.000 instead of 20.000
    - The energy storage structure now stores 800.000 instead of 100.000
    - This is the same 80/1 energy to metal ratio basic land fabbers use and thus more intuitive, building storage makes sense in a 1:1 ratio now.
    Changes to AI:

    - AI builds more fabbers and has an easier time expanding and multitask-building and assisting things because of this, at least I'm pretty sure it does
    - AI builds way more laser turrets and AA turrets, mexes will now often be defended by multiple turrets including double laser and triple laser turrets
    - This takes advantage of the buffed turrets to make AI bases more resistent to attack

    Added an engineering station:

    - Basically an advanced combat fabber but in turret form, range 150, auto repairs and can be given reclaim orders
    - Only repairs, does not assist with construction
    - It's as sturdy as an AA turret, so not very sturdy
    - Uses the basic AA turret model because modeling is too damn hard
    - Has a strategic icon, the laser turret icon but with a + sign
    - Has a terrible build bar icon in the utility tab above the wall, has a hotkey
    - Costs 500 metal, which might be stupidly cheap
    - Repairing uses 120 metal and 2000 energy just like the advanced combat fabber
    Last edited: September 13, 2015
  2. Mirolog

    Mirolog Well-Known Member

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    With this artillery mechanic, can you make AI prioritize radars/scout units/arty itself more?

    And how about giving highest push class to titans, and secong hightest to commander and manhattan? Because it would make much more sence?
    Last edited: August 22, 2015
  3. robintick

    robintick Well-Known Member

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    Push class actually no longer exists in the same form in the Titans expansion, not yet known how to modify it.
    Also I omitted the AI changes from the latest version, I should update the build notes.
    I want to try and get the AI to build more turrets and artillery again but AI build behavior is weird, will try and get that behaviour back in the next update.
  4. MasterKane

    MasterKane Member

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    Sounds like a first-ever turtling support mod for PA. I'll not try it out directly right now - game still lack built-in mod management system, and relying on PAMM file manipulation sounds like a good chance to get my installation damaged. However, based on description I have some proposals:
    • First off, I think that it's better to move advanced defense options into separate buildings rather than altering existing ones. That allows for more flexibility, including choice of weapons, and far more intuitive to new mod users who don't bother to read notes - it'll be immediately clear that they're facing a new option. That, however, may require UI rework in the long term, since existing one is notoriously non-scalable w.r.t. build option count, or moving advanced defenses to dedicated fabber.
    • The option that's most anticipated by turtlers around here is dome shields - there's no proper turtle without the shell. Probably best implementation around there is charge-sharing shield networks from Zero-K, but that may not be currently possible (someone said me that quite a long time ago). As a quick solution, implementation of shields as projectile-aiming turrets with bomber-like charge should do the trick.
    • Another missing, but necessary thing is tactical missile defense. Looks like in Titans there's TMD-like advanced air unit, Angel, that can serve as a source for copying weapon settings.
    • Long-range AA (like T3 one from SupCom or even Screamer/Chainsaw from Zero-K) is needed in order to counter T2 bomber spam that can only be stopped with interceptors in the stock game.
    • Mid-to-long-range rapid-fire artillery should be a very useful addition, as well as mid-range slow-ROF high-damage AOE anti-land cannon, like Doomsday Machine in Zero-K. Not sure about long-range single-target direct fire weapon, but can also be helpful vs titan units.
  5. Mirolog

    Mirolog Well-Known Member

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    Turrets shoot ground often, so they can hit enemies at max range only if they are high enough from the ground. I like this, because it's making new terrain features more important, however I don't like turrets shooting ground.

    WOW, AI was turtlig for 30 mins, and than sent 3 air titans to me. AI titan spam is real!

    Edit: 6 air titans
    Edit: 8 ait titans + giant army. AI titan spam is real x2!
    Edit: It's just spams air titans, I killed like 5-6 if them. I don't have titans technology, how can I win this?
    Last edited: August 23, 2015
  6. DeathByDenim

    DeathByDenim Post Master General

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    This is totally unrelated to this mod, but I just wanted to let you know that a built-in mod management system is still quite far away. PAMM is totally safe as it doesn't touch your installation at all. Mods live in a completely separate directory. Deleting just that directory will remove all mods and not leave a single trace. If you want to know more about how mods work in PA, see here.

    So, long story short, feel free to use PAMM to install this mod.
  7. riddick3

    riddick3 New Member

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    I'm getting a corrupted zip error whenever I try to install thuis
  8. robintick

    robintick Well-Known Member

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    I was able to uninstall and reinstall both the server mod and client mod through PAMM without error just now, could you try maybe emptying out your mod folders and reinstalling PAMM ?
    On Windows you can find hem here:
    C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\Local\Uber Entertainment\Planetary Annihilation\client_mods
    C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\Local\Uber Entertainment\Planetary Annihilation\server_mods
  9. Samildanach

    Samildanach New Member

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    I just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to do this and release it. Titans has improved and added a lot over the classic version, which I was disappointed with. The only gripes I have now are a lack of shields and weak defences and this goes some way towards fixing that. Much appreciated :)

    Update: I am getting the same error. I have attached a capture of the error

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: August 24, 2015
    robintick likes this.
  10. sycspysycspy

    sycspysycspy Active Member

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    Since you love turret so much, why not make the titans with turret slots and allow player to build turret on them. Just an idea coming into my mind when I read the title... As in the game Shellrazer.
  11. robintick

    robintick Well-Known Member

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    I agree shields are cool, I loved them in Supreme Commander, but making shields for PA is beyond me, that would require actual programming knowledge which I don't have :rolleyes:

    But... the function of shields is to provide a hitpoint buffer for the things it covers, the same function is performed somewhat by the engineering station unit I made.
    Try and put 2 of them near every group of turrets, they greatly enhance the survivability of your turrets by automatically repairing them.
    It's balanced by them using metal and energy, so it's not free health.

    They have the added benefit of being able to reclaim the enemy units that your turrets blew up, reclaim orders have to be given manually though.
  12. robintick

    robintick Well-Known Member

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    Building units onto other units, or upgrading a unit is currently not possible, the game doesn't have this feature.
    As a (simple) modder I can only work within the features that Uber has made, I can tweak and modifiy them but I can't make new features like that I'm affraid ;)
  13. Mirolog

    Mirolog Well-Known Member

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    But you can just add moar weapons to titans. But I think it's not needed. Maybe only some AA on Ares.
  14. robintick

    robintick Well-Known Member

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    Actually, PA units can have a maximum of 4 independent turrets if I'm not mistaken, and it already has 4 anti-land turrets.
    You could replace the rear turret with AA though.
    Or you could have the AA fire come out of the unit without it having an actual turret for it, but that would look stupid.

    But I'm not yet thinking of modifying the Titans themselves, I have yet to get a feel for their balance.
    Last edited: August 24, 2015
  15. Mirolog

    Mirolog Well-Known Member

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    Is it possible to just add extra bones to the model, so shots will be fired from them? So something like Helios weapons can be added, because they don't need an actual turret to look good,
  16. Samildanach

    Samildanach New Member

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    The programming I may be able to assist with, what I can't do is modelling and texture work. Although as this is not a feature integrated into the game it might be very challenging. As an alternative have you ever come across a PA/PAT mod that allows for unit to have special actions? Kinda similar to Supreme Commander 2?

    Also unfortunately I have not been able to test this mod yet as I get an error (uploaded pic to my original post) Any idea what is causing this?
  17. robintick

    robintick Well-Known Member

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    I don't know what's causing it, sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't.
    I just uninstalled both client and server mods from PAMM, and then reinstalled them, one of them gave the error.
    I got them to work by uninstalling again, making sure that the folders were not in here:

    C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\Local\Uber Entertainment\Planetary Annihilation\client_mods
    C:\Users\%USERNAME%\AppData\Local\Uber Entertainment\Planetary Annihilation\server_mods

    And then reinstalling through PAMM, I had to do that a couple of times and then suddenly it worked.
    When you get an error it does create a folder, so you have to delete that again, then restart PAMM and try again.
  18. robintick

    robintick Well-Known Member

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    You could add extra bones, or just use bone_root which every model has.
    Mirolog likes this.
  19. Samildanach

    Samildanach New Member

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    Still not able to download unfortunately. I saw your other post about zipping using Windows 10 which might be causing the issue. I have Windows 7, do you want me to try zipping it up for you on my pc?
  20. Mirolog

    Mirolog Well-Known Member

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    I have Win7 and it works fine. If you not able to DOWNLOAD, there is no problem in files, that you want download. If archive is broken somehow, you will be able to download it, but you won't be able to open it.

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