poll: Paper Units

I want a poll option for "I understand the game isn't close to finished and I trust Uber to make the right decision."

He never said it was any of those things, all he said was that a 10k v 10k battle will take longer than 1v1 battle.

Mike

why did you put (simulated projectiles) into the second option? both have simulated projectiles, all we are modifying is unit health...

that would need 3 options, the third being a maybe.

I would actually prefer a poll on: "I understand how the game works, and have enough valid understanding for me to say what needs changing". I would be curious to see the percentages.

well it makes it clear wich one will make the most use of simulated projectiles. obvious, really ^^

no. both use simulated projectiles. change it, or this will be more ammunition for me to shoot down your stupid ideas with.

Yeah I get its not done, which means we are in the best position to experiment with it. I would like to see unit health increased to make it so when you run a a death ball at a heavy defense line you can actually get in there.

Longer TTK at current speeds would let units run past defenses to get to the meaty center of a base.
Slower travel time means units take longer to get from their construction facility and into the action.

So really you need both. I wouldn't mind seeing some even slower, beefier units, like "The Can" from TA but I do still like the fast, squishy units. T1 bots are fantastic raiders and can be exceedingly annoying when ravaging undefended metal extractors but they are pretty easy to stop. T2 tanks are fairly beefy and can overrun the types of casual defenses that stop T1 bots, but they're slow so a heavy defense can stop them from just running into a base before you can respond to them.

So I guess I like it the way it is but wouldn't mind more late-game units that are heavier but slower than T2 tanks -- something that can slowly grind through a tough defense that isn't being actively maintained.

The way I would see it is to increase everything(unit health, turret/defense damage, building/defense health, etc) that isn't unit damage.

Unit damage stays the same, increases on HP across the board, increase turret HP to keep them scary to forces of units.

End result is everything stays alive a bit longer, units take longer to kill each other.

I'm not really asking for a huge increase, either. 3-5 more seconds on the TTK and I would be happy I think.

The Question is why tanks and bots can cluster together?
I hate the flowfield pathfinding. It feels wrong. Tanks and robots dont feel massive as they should be. If units would need space and wreckage would block them, fights would last longer!

Wreckage does block units (can be seen some times with ants charging a defense tower), but wreckage doesn't last very long because it absorbs weapons fire.

And Combine that with the trend of overkilling and you have wreckage that starts off pre-weakened as well(if that's how it works, that's how it was talked about at least).

Mike

yea, (hey Bhaal!) this flowfield thing was done completely wrong in SupCom 2 (there was even cheating on the speed to allow units to get into formation faster! they could litteraly zap across the map!) and here again the flowfiled feels wrong.

don't get me wrong 1 : I know flowfield is the way to go and I want to see it used to optain our desired result

2 : I know the game is unfinished and this sideways sliding thing will surely dissapear down the line

Exacly ! funny how a top FA player can understand my feeling,and PA players dont

i think all round the FA community is pretty much on the same side of the debates on this forum.

This is a biased poll in its wording and doesn't address all of the facets of this discussion.

It also is a premature poll.

We shouldn't be discussing game changing balance like this until we have a (at least mostly) full unit roster.

Gameplay can change a heck of a lot by the addition of new units.

That being said, I like things how they are. Keeps the gameplay fast paced and unit movement, not tech, is the determining factor in a win or loss.

I've talked about this before, and I'll talk about it again. I don't like how in the old Command and Conquer Red Alert (love the game, just not this part) where some tanks or infantry men would just stand there and shoot at each other. Or in Age of Empires (also loved that series) where some swordsmen would just slash at each other for a minute before dying. Or in newer squad based rts games where they'll also just stand there and shoot at each other for a minute or so.

At any rate.

Pointless poll, almost pointless discussion UNTIL we get a mostly full unit roster. There's simply too much unknown to be discussing such drastically game changing things like this.

No. you don't know what you're talking about.
full unit roster or not the battle feel is in need of tweaking. it doesn't serve the TA fans, it doesn't serve the FA fans. it may be intended to serve the SC fans but I feel even them care little for the current battle feel.

Because it's a biased poll. The choices are worded to make the second one, the one he agrees with, to sound like the better option.

Except we're missing most of the unit roster. The game has big changes coming, and these changes can drastically change the state of the game.

What's more, I'm sure Uber has experimented with changing the health. It's just a few variables for them. So I'm sure they've played games with more unit health and have their reasons for either keeping it as it is or waiting until we have more of a full unit roster to try more health.

There's your problem. Sending in a death ball at a heavy defensive line, whether your units have more health or not, is NEVER the right way to play. You need to use strategy and artillery units to take out defensive lines – or better yet, simply go around. Or nuke it. Or do anything aside from just charging right at it.

Also, keep in mind, Planetary Annihilation is supposed to be about the macro. Not micro. Increasing unit health, means whoever controls their individual units in the small actions wins the engagement. With less unit health, the game is more about macro decisions like where to attack (like not into a defensive line), what units to choose, where to send them, what to protect, etc.

I don't know what I'm talking about?

Yet you then don't bother to refute my point.

Gameplay will change a lot when more units are added. We don't know where Uber is taking this game so talking about stuff like this is pointless until we know more about Uber's plans. We don't YET know enough about the game to be debating stuff like this.

The current unit health also serves to benefit macro play more than micro play.

Also. PA is a standalone game. It draws inspiration from previous games, but is not supposed to copy or be a sequel of other games. So who cares what the other games were like. PA is PA – not any other game.

And again.

Biased poll. Does very little to actually gauge the community's stance due to the flawed wording of the poll and limited options.

Edit: And why is it NEED of tweaking other than you think it does? There are reasons to keep it as it is, yet you ignore them.

Hopefully flowfield pathing will appear less awkward once formations are in... Though it will probably feel like you're ordering around giant springs as they bend around the terrain.

The lack of death animations and elaborate explosions is probably another (and more significant) reason units don't feel massive.