Peregrines and Hummingbirds

IT really doesn't.

T2 could just be beefier to survive more AA, and slower. Then t1 is being used as an interceptor, whereas T2 is being used as an escort.

That is very true, lol I forgot to take speed in to account. But then again thats essentially what I am suggesting except I am completely ditching the idea of the t1 and t2 fighter being similar which can be seen as good or bad I guess. lol I am truly enjoying these discussion

Maybe the air needs a Vanguard?

Like, a slow speed fighter, with high health, and point blank rapid fire multi target missiles. Would obviously escort bombers, and tank a lot of damage, and even clear weaker fighters that just fly right up against it, but doesn't have the speed or range to chase other fighters down on it's own and is expensive.

Absolutely not rapid fire missiles. That's the peregrine. It's why the Peregrine is OP.

I think that also sounds viable, although if its anything like the Vanguards currently I think its a bad idea. Vanguards are suppose to be high risk, high reward units. It shouldn't be a low risk, relatively cheap and spam-able with a really high payoff. Also I think it would need some sort of change or difference than the regular Vanguard as I dont think essentially copy+pasted layers would be fun.

How are you sure that vanguards are supposed to be high risk at all?

To me they are supposed to be the exact opposite, vanguards are supposed to be extremely dependable meat shields, and dependable assault units that can tear down enemy walls and laser towers to allow tanks to pile into enemy bases.

By that logic they should be in the Basic "generalist" tier, not the "specialised" tier. Which I'd be ok with actually.

Keep all the numbers the same, just move into T1 factories.

I... would be okay with this... if they were more balanced in general.

This can apparently kill commanders, or so I heard. Hopefully nobody recorded that stream I played where I tried reclaim-firing on a vanguard, I mean I lost but it was just 1 vanguard I thought they reclaim faster than it did.

If they did just 2x the damage of ants, at its current point blank range, and were slow high health walls, then I could dig it.

Generally, I just wish they didn't have weapons at all and "blocked shots" a la walls. Just moving walls. More than strong enough on that merit.

I don't know but at the moment it looks like thats what Uber inteneded to make it with their ludacris damage. I don't really care if they are considered reliable meat shields or high risk units. I just don't want them to be so easy and cost effective to use :/

If it for any reason whatsoever gets in range of a commander, you may in fact kill a commander for as little as a few thousand metal, which you get streamed in seconds.

Sounds pretty effective if someone jukes one into that situation. I hear enough people complain about drops, enough so that they are given a shorthand name and refered to often under it. It wouldn't be popular if it weren't a thing. Since it is a thing, it obviously happens.

Just saying, 2 nukes cost how much? A vanguard and peregrine cost how much? If you want to be an arsehole, quote the price of the factory, sure, you still will have huge price gap.

I have nothing against vanguard drops. I think there one of the hardest snipes to acomplish as you can see it coming from a mile away and you deserve to lose if you miss anything so critical. I just want a reason a greater reason to use other units. For example why go for close range heavy damage dealing slammers if you can put up a few t2 vehicle factories constantly pumping vanguard and a few t1 stingers in the mix. There are not many effective ways to counter mass vanguards and stingers. At the end of the day no matter how we want units to be implemented or what our opinions are on them, I think we can agree that we all want unit diversity which was the purpose of the thread originally

Shellers or Gil-e counter spinners and vanguard. In low numbers even.

But, honestly, you say it's hard to accomplish, yet I have seen firefly snipes happen upon mistake of the opponent. However, enough people complain about drops, apparently bulls*** happened and the drop worked against them. You and them can get into a shouting match about how scrubby they are later, the point is the cost per kill.

Besides, all you have to do is declare fullscale peregrine war on their peregrines, and if you have similar numbers of peregrines, you simply slip one or a few pelicans in, if they make it and the odds arent bad, bam win.

You might as well let the peregrines themself attack the commander to cite a greater extreme of the situation.

Gil-e's need to be micro'd constantly to withstand vanguards and well many players don't enjoy that and think more macro. Now shellers I must admit are great counters, but then again its not a wide variety of options which is what I was trying to go for. As for the the drops the peregrine vs peregrine for vanguard drops is a by product of the only air counter to peregrines being more peregrines hence me suggesting a different role of peregrines. And even if a vanguard or two drop there is still a chance to counter them. If you surround your com in your own vanguards, turrets and anti air they can't really do much. As for the pelican problem I think something like this (https://forums.uberent.com/threads/suggeston-smart-attack-selections.58785/) should and probably will be implemented cancelling that problem out.

What if the Hummingbird got a boost to speed, damage and range and a slight health reduction, making it more of a glass cannon interceptor. For the Peregrine, lower it's speed, raise it's health and drop the missiles, instead give it 3-5 continuous beam weapons that do lowish damage (at least if they are targeting different planes) over time and can target independently. It would work well against defending an area, especially when combined with Hummingbirds to attack the weakened targets of it's beams, but since it's slower faster planes could fly away and only take a bit of damage.