Pay to Win?

Except you're still massively exaggerating the changes and thus the outcomes.....

Your examples assume broad changes based on the Commander, but everyone can figure out that's a bad way to go about it, especially the guys at Uber, we're FAR more likely to see small, almost insignificant changes.

Also worth considering just how the Commanders work in TA compared to SupCom, Commanders have a local influence, a slightly different commander isn't going to globally influence your strategy past the first 5 minutes if at all. So far all info is pointing towards more of the TA style, both in terms of the commander and other large portions of the gameplay.

I ask again, how many strategies are there ONLY involving the commander(TA Style) and how many more would there be if a small change was introduced?

Mike

Exactly, orangeknight. If I had access to the UEF and cybran commanders but not the aeon coz I didn’t pony up enough cash, a sh1t would not be given. As long as they’re balanced that’s all that matters.

Actually it's more accurate to say you have Access to all the Factions, but only some of the ACUs, without any upgrades......

Mike

People really like to assume the worst, that's the only thing I get from this thread.

Not to mention the fact that we are going to have a good amount of alpha/beta time here. If any of this stuff is imbalanced I'm sure you'll sort us out right quick

I think that if the devs think they have a way to give the special commanders some distinct characteristics without making them unbalanced, that would be ideal. Obviously that would be tricky, but I'm not going to dismiss the concept without hearing what specific characteristics they have in mind.

That said, I'm pledged at the $100 level, and I had assumed that the commanders would be only aesthetically different from each other when I pledged. If that turns out to be the case in the event, I will still be perfectly satisfied.

While watching the flame wars is entertaining, I would like to quietly vote for visual-only commanders with identical stats to standard commanders. And yes, I am an Alpha-level backer, so y'all can forget about the ad hominem attacks regarding money.

Again, the problem isn't imbalance. Uber is perfectly able to make the special commanders balanced. The problem is that we have access to more things because we paid more at a certain time. This is what isn't fine.

It was pointed earlier that:

But it is also that people will see that they don't and will never have access to something because they didn't pay the right amount at the right moment.
Many people resent when preordering a FPS gives you access to exclusive weapons, even in single-player sometimes. It's not about balance, it's about limited choices despite paying for the complete game.

It's not a huge issue, but it would be nicer to have aesthetic-only changes.

Why isn’t it fine? People should get their heads around the business model of kickstarter.

Look at popular free to play games like LoL or Tribes Ascend, where the starting items are (mostly) meant to be as good as the unlockable ones. There are items that everyone can acquire, be it by paying or by paying a lot ; there are also items that can be only acquired by paying.
The gameplay-affecting elements are almost always in the first category. The second one almost always have only aesthetic items like new skins. And when they don't, people protest.

I put in $300 just to do a significant part to make sure this game happens. I've been waiting half my life for it.

I'm worried about situations where the exclusive commander benefits fare better than the regular ones, and the doubt that would cause.

I'd be happy with just something cosmetic to show off my early support of the game. A fart sound or being able to carry balloons would suffice.

Please quit worrying about this. It's not an issue in any way, shape or form.

And I ask again;
I ask again, how many strategies are there ONLY involving the commander(TA Style) and how many more would there be if a small change was introduced?

Show me situations where a different commander can vastly effect your strategy or stop whining about strategies not being available to everyone.

Mike

I fully expect the Uber team to have a 'LOLPOCKETNUKE' option on their commanders. They hide it under their kilts...

Being confident in Uber leads me to believe that they will be balanced. I guess it's more so lame for the people that don't hear about this game till it's out and don't get the commander that fits their play style or they think looks awesome.

Anyway being the tf2 player i am, how much do i have to pay to be able to put a hat on my commander? :roll:

I find nothing as infuriating to find that I buy a game only to find out that it becomes necessary to pay more to be competitive, the commander unit decides the entire early game in supreme commander on most ladder games, with only one faction how do you plan on balancing these new abilities, seraphim have a much stronger acu, but lack a lab unit and raiding potential. You cannot perfectly balance things that are not the same, you put a rock and a apple on the scale, you can shave the apple until they are balanced but your can't change the density. Hupothetically if you do balance this perfectly. What message are you sending to your 15000 basic backers, Hah, thought you had PAID for the game, but we aren't giving you the whole game, infact your are limited in options for the most important unit reducing your competitiveness and screwing you over online, which happens to be the entire game. I expected more from you über. If you input this feature please post this news on your website clearly, ??$ for complete game, 20$ for basic units. And please a give an option to rescind orders to avoid advertising fraud. I know that the majority of the people on this forum will disagree because they have most likely payed $$? I really was excited for this game, but it looks more and more that it will destroy TA's legend, much like aoe online did

We never had anything like this for MNC or SMNC.

Wut? If we do balance perfectly, wouldn't that mean there's no advantage?

You're also assuming that the Kickstarter exclusive commanders are guaranteed to be better, or if they do have special abilities there won't be a standard commander with the same ability. We could also give them a special ability that's just fluff, like when activated causes it to dance or something silly.

Honestly, we have no idea what they'll be if anything until we're further along. We may go down the road of unique abilities and find it causes too many problems and cut them.

I find nothing more infuriating than people talking complete and utter bollocks.

the seraphim ACU was OP due to the regen (and a bug related to the regen IIRC). This was imbalanced because the regen was too cheap, NOT because the other commanders didn’t get a regen. Certainly the seraphim’s OP regen wasn’t balanced by the lack of a lab, which were only useful in the first 2-3 minutes of any game.

Wah wah wah. The kickstarter offers were clear as f’ing crystal so even a retard like yourself should’ve been able to understand what you were getting when you pledged.

Having mechanical options other people do not have access to is, in effect, imbalance. Commanders need to be visual-only.

I'm not buying into PA so I can get a SMNC version of TA where people who are willing to shell out more cash, or even grind more time, whether during the game or during the kickstarter, have any sort of advantage.

Each player should have the same field of mechanical options, wether they backed it for 20 or for 1000. Wether they play the game like a madman or only on their limited free time. Once they get into the game, the only thing that should determine victory is tactics and skill. Anything else, and you have a hollow facimilie of a fair game.

More options than other people get, for anything other than aesthetics, IS IMBALANCE. You cannot 'balance' limited access mechanical options.

I keep seeing people say this yet nobody has been able to show why.

Having a unique commander, that’s balanced with the remaining commanders, is not an advantage. it’s just a different option. Balance is determined by stats, NOT availability.