PA Stats 1v1 ladder map pool

Discussion in 'Planetary Annihilation General Discussion' started by elodea, September 15, 2014.

  1. judicatorofgenocide

    judicatorofgenocide Active Member

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    Amy chance to make it like half the pool in probability to see effects on gameplay?

    Or like 1/3 probability something more frequent than 1 in however many maps there are?
  2. cptconundrum

    cptconundrum Post Master General

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    There will only be one or two large maps in this set, but if they are well received I think more would come later.
  3. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

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    I can't speak for the rest of the group, but my thoughts are that it would not be wise to include alot of experimental maps. I think the map pool needs to remain relatively stable and 'meta standard'. That isn't to say it shouldn't include a variety of maps and explore new directions, but that we should be initially cautious when entering new ground.

    If big maps end up not playing well, we don't want to have half the ladder pool full of them.
    If
    they end up playing well, we can always add more.

    If you want to play just big maps to test them, you can save a local copy via the system editor and create custom games :)
  4. judicatorofgenocide

    judicatorofgenocide Active Member

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    Not understanding how they wouldn't play well.

    Balanced spawns, then it should be all good.

    The desire to stay in the known meta, safe, and avoiding adapting playstyles is understandable.

    Although this fear for lack of better term should not slow the creation of diversified play being validated on ladder.

    If something breaks the game and its the big maps fault the smaller maps can easily be reinserted to the pool.

    Although I can't fathom how a larger single planets or multiple planets could break the game.

    I do know that the top hundred players won't try new playstyles with only one large planet, and can easily see the top fifty simply vetoing it to avoid losing there spot on the ladder by entering the unknown.

    Thusly slowing progress to diversified gameplay to a crawl.

    Plus, with current balance I doubt meta will change minus air scouts to locate opponent and direct aggression.

    If only one large planet will be inserted make the probability of playing on it equal to that of smaller planets and at least insert enough so it can't simply be vetoed away.

    Hyper aggression is awesome and enjoyable but should not be the end all be all from both a spectators and players point of view.
    Last edited: October 15, 2014
  5. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

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    The official pa stats ladder pool is not for map testing!

    People play ranked games on these maps and we want to be certain that they can count on a certain level of quality with released systems. We can't just push and pull maps at convenience. At the least, I would prefer this not happen simply to waste less of colin's time.

    If you want to help test big maps, send me a pm and i'll hook you up with the big radius system and any other big radius systems in development as they come through.
  6. cptconundrum

    cptconundrum Post Master General

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    Last edited: October 21, 2014
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  7. cmdrflop

    cmdrflop Active Member

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    You should do more streams, it was really entertaining. And tell Quitch that he is a great caster in my opinion :p
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  8. stuart98

    stuart98 Post Master General

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    Is there a way for you to see the statistics of which maps are most veto'd?
  9. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    I could add code to make the UI mod tell me that. Though since in 2 weeks PA Stats automatching most likely will be removed due to the official version I don't want to put much more work into it.
  10. elodea

    elodea Post Master General

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    Hey guys, today is a big day! Team Genesis has been eager for some time now to share our latest set of competitive maps balanced for 1v1. It hasn't been all smooth sailing, so we apologise for not being able to get them out to you any earlier. We know you've been putting up with the old unbalanced ladder maps for far too long!

    Today we finally reached a point where we were happy enough with the quality of the maps to push the button. This update features a new 900 radius planet, larger than anything we've previously been comfortable to say was suitable for 1v1. So have a play on it and leave your feedback! This will be the last update to the 1v1 map pool - detailed changelog and map information below.

    While the pa stats ladder will become unsupported in a few weeks due to uber's official ladders coming online, we're still going to be working hard to support future community or exodus tournament events so your feedback still matters. If you feel we are missing certain important aspects of PA gameplay in our map sets, or if you think we could have done something better etc. we would love to hear what, why, and how.

    Also want to leave a big thanks to ColaColin for creating pa stats online and supporting the ladder for as long as he has. I doubt the competitive community would be anywhere as large or established if not because of him.


    20/10/2014 Pa Stats Ladder Map Changelog
    • Rebalanced mex for all maps
    • Added new maps Clarke, Faceoff, Capital N, and Dust of Doom (thanks stuart98).
    • Tug of war pathing issues fixed. Both edge spawn options have been changed to now have secondary paths around their respective lava ponds to minimise the effectiveness of contains from the middle spawns
    • Station 3 crevices reworked to minimise possible pathing issues and create more interesting lane gameplay
    • Caledonia reworked to allow more emphasis on naval control and land bombardment type gameplay.
    • Taxman reduced to 2 spawns only, meaning you are now guaranteed that your opponent will spawn on the other island to you.

    Map Listing

    [​IMG]

    Dust of Doom
    Author: Stuart98
    Biome: Desert
    Radius: 550
    Metal Count: 110
    Description: Standard 1v1 desert with more metal than average. One big lake edging on 3 spawn positions might present naval opportunities for players.
    Spawn Count: 4
    [​IMG]



    Taxman
    Author: Taxman
    Biome: Lava
    Radius: 600
    Metal Count: 94
    Description: Two islands divided by lava. Heavy focus on air gameplay and some artillery options.
    Spawn Count: 2
    [​IMG]


    Tug of War

    Author: Elodea
    Biome: Lava
    Radius: 596
    Metal Count: 95
    Description: One straight landmass surrounded by lava. Two edge spawns and two middle spawns. Simple and straightforward to understand, with some opportunities to sneak around and flank your opponent from behind.
    Spawn Count: 4
    [​IMG]


    Cross Back
    Author: The Wrong Cat
    Biome: Lava
    Radius: 500
    Metal Count: 50
    Description: Circular layout provides interesting chokepoint and map control gameplay. Try not to get boxed in!
    Spawn Count: 4
    [​IMG]


    Water World
    Author: Elodea
    Biome: Tropical
    Radius: 650
    Metal Count: 111
    Description: No land in sight and water as far as the eye can see. Get ready for gratuitous amounts of ships and air.
    Spawn Count: 6
    [​IMG]


    Dustbowl
    Author: Elodea
    Biome: Desert
    Radius: 520
    Metal Count: 101
    Description: Many interesting chokepoints and zoning possibilities, but can just as readily also descend into an all out brawl
    Spawn Count: 4
    [​IMG]


    HoneyPot
    Author: Elodea
    Biome: Lava, Lava, Ice
    Radius: 450, 450, 700
    Metal Count: 41, 41, 379
    Description: Multi-planet spawn system with two low metal lava planets orbiting one high metal count Ice planet.
    Spawn Count: 4, 4, 0
    [​IMG]


    Station 3

    Author: Elodea
    Biome: Ice
    Radius: 600
    Metal Count: 108
    Description: 3 land spawns and one naval spawn make for different gameplay each time. Land spawns operate in a triangle, with some secondary routes between spawns. You could also send special forces dox around through the water to attack from behind your opponents base.
    Spawns: 4
    [​IMG]


    Clarke
    Author: CptConundrum
    Biome: Desert
    Radius: 900
    Metal Count: 249
    Description: Super huge planet with some water and a bunch of lanes for land movement. No-one really knows how to play these big maps properly yet so have fun!
    Spawn Count: 6
    [​IMG]


    Systeem X
    Author: Mot
    Biome: Moon
    Radius: 500
    Metal Count: 66
    Description: Classic fast paced moon gameplay. Fights will usually always be very scrappy
    Spawn Count: 4
    [​IMG]

    Capital N
    Author: Mot
    Biome: Metal
    Radius: 600
    Metal Count: 72
    Description: Because the spawns are on opposite sides of the equator, this map tends to feel much larger than it actually is. Capital N plays slower and much more macro paced than your standard moon. Also has alot of interesting movement options and bridge chokepoints.
    Spawn Count: 2
    [​IMG]


    Faceoff
    Author: Elodea
    Biome: Metal, Metal, Moon
    Radius: 500, 500, 270
    Metal Count: 109, 109, 0
    Description: This is the multi-planet spawn orbital version of Capital N. As per popular request, you can annihilaser race, compete for the 3rd halleyable moon to destroy your opponents laser controls, or just plain out invade from orbit and ignore the super weapons all together.
    Spawn Count: 2, 2, 0
    [​IMG]


    Caledonia
    Author: [RLM]Max
    Biome: Earth
    Radius: 596
    Metal Count: 93
    Description: Earthlike planet with alot of water and water metal. Some interesting land movement options as well if you want to ignore all that. All spawns are vulnerable to naval bombardment to some degree however.
    Spawn Count: 4
    [​IMG]
  11. cptconundrum

    cptconundrum Post Master General

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    I added our stream to my post, but I can put it here too for the bump.

    cmdrflop likes this.
  12. zihuatanejo

    zihuatanejo Well-Known Member

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    Cracking stuff. I really like Faceoff and Clarke, I've only played these new systems so far. Nice to have some larger planets :) Thanks to everyone who has worked on these new systems/planets.
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  13. cptconundrum

    cptconundrum Post Master General

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  14. mayhemster

    mayhemster Well-Known Member

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    yay!
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  15. totalannihilation

    totalannihilation Active Member

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    Team Genesis Offline Map Pack is here!!
    for those who wanted back all those maps, we compacted them all in a mod and added in a new tab in the system designer
    download now at PAMM
    cptconundrum likes this.
  16. mot9001

    mot9001 Well-Known Member

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    Couldn't find it trough PAMM but using exodus website it seems to work in PAMM.
  17. mot9001

    mot9001 Well-Known Member

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    nvm i just wasnt looking properly
  18. Slamz

    Slamz Well-Known Member

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    I have to say, for all the 1v1 complaints about balance and it just not being that fun or in-depth, it feels like the 1v1 community likes to shoot itself in the foot by making most maps be very simple, small, single-planet systems.

    Yes, in a simple, small, single-planet system you're pretty much guaranteed to have a nice boring Dox rush that we can all go to the forums and complain about.

    I've had a lot of far more interesting 1v1 games on bigger maps and multi-planet spawns. I think 1 year ago I would have agreed that orbital sucked enough and resulted in stalemates enough to agree that small maps would be better but now I'm not so sure.
  19. cola_colin

    cola_colin Moderator Alumni

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    I agree it is weird that most of the maps are ~600 in size, I would rather see a bit more.
    Multiplanets... I dunno about orbital balance really. Personally my issue with orbital isn't balance, it is the fact that controlling orbital units feels horrible, having to rotate the planet to select the orbital units so that I don't also select a lot of ground/air units with them is just plain bad in addition to orbital units quickly becoming hard to spot amont ground/air units.
    cptconundrum likes this.
  20. Slamz

    Slamz Well-Known Member

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    My experience with 1v1 multiplanet is that it's really not an orbital fight anyway. It just skips the very early opening phase of "Dox harassment" and therefore gives you some more options on how to get rolling.

    The real goal is to invade the other player ASAP, long before it turns into a serious orbital battle. The best games usually involve us simultaneously invading each other's planets. At that point it's more like a traditional battle but, again, skipping that very early Dox harassment phase.

    Once you eliminate the Dox harassment phase, "Dox spam" becomes a lot more questionable. You don't want to be standing there with a ton of Dox when your opponent drops a warpgate and starts streaming T1 tanks out. Dox can out-harass vehicles when it comes to early mex kills but when it's just a ton of vehicles blobbing through a warpgate and headed to your base, it can be a problem. (On the other hand, if you can invade your opponent, your Dox blob can quickly spread out and sweep up lots of his lonely mexes. It is, I think, a much more interesting balance.)


    In the current 1v1 ranked maps I've actually won a few times by starting on the lava world in that one two-world map. The ice world has way more metal (which is dumb) but lots of 1v1 players just don't seem to know what to do if there's no Dox harassment phase at the start.

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