Orchestral Music

I disagree that it lacks tonality and expression.

You can't really disagree with that unless you don't know what those words mean. The tone is bad, and the articulation is flat and robotic. This is not a subjective thing.

It's music. It either sounds good, and is enjoyable, or it isn't.

For me it's the former in this particular context.

You can't really claim it sounds good, for every measure of good sound a synth orchestra does not hold up. And this one is a particularly bad offender.

Unless you are conflating the sound and the music, which are two different things. Just because you enjoy the music doesn't mean the sound is good and vice versa.

I'm not a music student, I don't play an instrument. I have no knowledge of musical theory. I don't have anything else to say.

what?? noooo

It would be nice if you would recall the original topic instead of nitpicking yourself into a hole that has nothing to do with anything. The original point of contention was that synth did not sound as good as an orchestra. At first you were all defensive about not denying it, then you suddenly claimed there was no difference. Then you got all philosophical about it. All the while none of that had anything to do with my claim that it sounded so poor that it should be easy to tell for just about anyone whether or not it was synth, that difference being the confusion that the thread is actually about.

Please, focus.

I'm sorry I'm breaking my "do not say things on the internet when you can barely stay awake" rule.

As an (amateur) orchestral musician I obviously am in full agreement that synths sound nothing like as good as the real thing.

However, if geers isn't a musician and enjoys it, then let him be. Just cos it bothers some of us doesn't mean we have to force our opinions on everyone else.

Also, as you said the synth in PA is pretty bad at the moment. Howard actually mentioned this himself, saying that he could hand tune the individual synth parts to make them sound a lot better but wasn't going to bother, seeing as we're getting a real orchestral recording.
Personally, I'm looking forward to getting real recorded music in the game, but mixing is one hell of a job and it sounds like he's the only one working on it, so I understand we might be waiting a while.

When Howard has done mixing it and ready to release the soundtrack.

Co

Consider how this was made... anybody who could replicate the actual musical expressiveness of a human being and make a program out of it would me a millionaire. Sadly that has yet to be done. Now again considering the music we hear is a computer synth version i find this to be pretty good.... considering. But i dont by any means judge the character of the piece based on this sole recording. I will wait untill the live score is released....
It it would benifit you to describe why you think howard's material is weak and how it compares to others in the industry... he isnt writing an orchestral piece to be played in concert halls... he is writting a sound track. Compare apples to apples please. This should be lined up against soundtracks from videogames not actual orchestral compositions.
Im going to wait to judge and "fruitlessly offend" untill Howard has a chance to send out the live versions.

Now we're entering opinion territory. But I will try to explain. There's very few good thematic ideas, and none of them are explored very well. The music jumps around confusedly, and does not help to drive the experience of an epic battle. It's very offbeat, and it almost sounds like it's out of tune.

I almost have to wonder if this Howard could be tone deaf. No offense. His supcom2 score was similarly troubled.

^None of that would be solved by an orchestra.

Poor synths... you could model expression into it, and it would play that accurately.

I find bigger issue is conversion of digital to analogue information. It seems you lose more than analogue to digital to analogue.

If your DAC/ADC is reasonably good there shouldn't be a noticeable impact on the sound. Better is obviously preferable but I imagine they are using professional equipment with high quality compared to consumer products.

And yes that is why I said I doubted if a recording was going to help this stuff.

I find that even the best synth tuned to the highest standards just does not hold up. It can sound pretty good, but there is just no competition for the real thing.

I'm not sure what you're talking about, SupCom's score is a live orchestra, as are a lot of Soule's scores. He's behind the music for Elder Scrolls, Morrwind through Skyrim, and all of that was orchestrated as well.

Just look at his repertiore:

• EverQuest Next (2014)
• War Thunder (2012)
• World of Warcraft: Mists of Pandaria (2012)[32]
• Guild Wars 2 (2012)
• Otomedius Excellent (2011)
• Deep Black (2011)
• The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim (2011)
• Metal Gear Solid: Peace Walker (2010)
• zOMG! (2009)
• Order of War (2009)
• IL-2 Sturmovik: Birds of Prey (2009)
• Supreme Commander: Forged Alliance (2007)
• Supreme Commander (2007)
• Guild Wars: Eye of the North (2007)
• Guild Wars Nightfall (2006)
• Guild Wars Factions (2006)
• Prey (2006)
• The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (2006)
• Warhammer: Mark of Chaos (2006)
• Company of Heroes: Tales of Valor (2006)
• Company of Heroes: Opposing Fronts (2006)
• Company of Heroes (2006)
• Dungeon Siege II (2005)
• Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire (2005)
• Guild Wars Prophecies (2005)
• Kohan II: Kings of War (2004)
• Warhammer 40,000: Dawn of War (2004)
• Lemony Snicket's A Series of Unfortunate Events (2004)
• Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban (2004)
• Armies of Exigo (2004)
• Impossible Creatures (2003)
• Dungeon Siege: Legends of Aranna (2003)
• Unreal II (2003)
• Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic (2003)
• Sovereign (canceled in 2003)
• Harry Potter: Quidditch World Cup (2003)
• Star Wars: Bounty Hunter (2002)
• SOCOM: U.S. Navy SEALs (2002)
• Neverwinter Nights (2002) (music was later reused in Neverwinter Nights 2)
• Magic School Bus Explores the World of Animals (2002)
• Natural Selection (2002)
• The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind (2002)
• Dungeon Siege (2002)
• Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets (2002)
• Rugrats in Paris: The Movie (2001)
• Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone (2001)
• Final Four 2002 (2001)
• Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance (2001)
• Azurik: Rise of Perathia (2001)
• Icewind Dale: Heart of Winter (2001)
• Putt-Putt's One-Stop Fun Shop (2000)
• Beauty and the Beast (2000)
• Amen: The Awakening (canceled in 2000)
• Rugrats Totally Angelica Boredom Buster (2000)
• Giants: Citizen Kabuto (2000)
• Icewind Dale (2000)
• Revenant (1999)
• Total Annihilation: Kingdoms (1999)
• Spy Fox in "Dry Cereal" (1998)
• Spy Fox Cheese Chase (1998)
• Pajama Sam: Lost and Found (1998)
• Total Annihilation: Core Contingency (1998)
• Young Dilbert Hi-Tech Hijinks (1997)
• Pajama Sam's SockWorks (1997)
• Freddi Fish 3: The Case of the Stolen Conch Shell (1997)
• Total Annihilation (1997)
• Putt-Putt Travels Through Time (1997)
• Putt-Putt and Pep's Dog On a Stick (1996)
• Pajama Sam: No Need to Hide When It's Dark Outside (1996)
• Freddi Fish & Luther's Water Worries (1996)
• Freddi Fish & Luther's Maze Madness (1996)
• Secret of Evermore (1995)

Are you saying TA is the only orchestrated score in there?

supcom is most assuredly not live. I can't say I've heard every score on there, but of the ones I have only TA is live. It is fairly uncommon for video games to use an orchestra actually, if they aren't high profile stuff.

I assume you mean "the only live orchestrated score", right?

No, SupCom has synth.
http://www.gsoundtracks.com/reviews/supremecommander.htm

Again I must stress this is really something you should be able to just hear if you've ever enjoyed orchestral music in any capacity.

And of all the stuff on there, TA and Skyrim included, I really do think that supcom is his magnum opus and seeing it relegated to synth only breaks my heart. And my ears...

just my 2 cents ... but honeslty weither synched or orchestraded i dont realy care ... both can have their own good quality just because something is synched doesn`t mean it sounds bad ... a track can be as orchestrated or liveplayed as it wants if i dont enjoy the melody or the rythm etc. then that doesnt help it ... there might be even the point were i might like tracks that are synched instead of orchestrated ... maybe because of a particular sound or sample that i dont feel can be replicated by the other ... there are things you can do with synched music that you may can not with orcestra and viceversa ...
i also like to point out that the current music and its implentation is still only first pass ... the pace of how they are played during playing the game might be changed and not only the quality of each track ...
the problem with the supcom 2 soundtrack to me was there wasnt realy one memorable track even though the overall quality of the soundtrack was alright imo ...