Orbital "air" units an acceptable form of space combat in PA

Re: Orbital "air" units an acceptable form of space combat i

Orbital space combat does not have to be this way, there can still be enough unique interactions between these layers.

I imagine these units generally less cost effective (more expensive) than air units. And only specific units able to effectively hit the surface. What I am interested in personally, is not the interaction between air and orbit, but between different orbits.

Transferring troops from one planet to another one seems kind of necessary for the gameplay. Things we heard to do this would be unit cannons and maybe using asteroids as transports (I cannot remember for sure).

I personally think it would feel awesome to be able to launch your armada to the orbit of a different planet, where the opponent would try to defend with their armada. I just fail to see how you would establish a beachhead otherwise (without nuking or dumping asteroids on it), especially when a planet would not have a moon which you could use to unit-cannon your opponent. If you would limit this to just transport ships, I would be a bit of a sad panda . On the other hand, if Uber wants to focus on the use of asteroid and making those as versatile as possible, and filling this possible gap, that would be great as well.

But if that is not really the problem you have with the OP, then do not regard this as pointed to you, but more as a general idea kind of thing .

Re: Orbital "air" units an acceptable form of space combat i

That's basically what teh OP is suggesting thought, my point is not that it Can be different, but that it SHOULD be different.

Mike

Re: Orbital "air" units an acceptable form of space combat i

That's not what I'm suggesting at all. I used air units as an example to illustrate my idea more effectively and give a frame of reference. I never said the should be exactly alike, only perhaps similar.

using the underwater analogy lets assume Orbital fighters are like subs. Unique, space style weapons systems (ie Lasers?) only usable in that layer. The unit must stay in the orbital layer but can transfer from planet to planet staying in their orbital layers much like a sub using a river to move between oceans.

Orbital Transports might be like Amphibious Units. Able to carry units from the surface, into the orbital layers (for transit only) and then back down to the surface of another planet. Kinda like an Amphibious transport for non-Amphibious units (think of the UEF experimental aircraft carrier loading air units on 1 side of the map, carrying them underwater only to deploy them elsewhere). Able to fight in both layers (maybe) but certainly not as effectively in either as dedicated layer specific units.

Underwater Structures might be like Orbital Structures. Providing some benefit while being more costly than their alternate counterparts yet better protected simply by virtue of their location. Certianly there is potential there for layer specific functions too! (like defense sats in supcom, or underwater plane factories in TA).

And then there could be some sort of Orbital bomber kind of like the nuclear subs from supcom. Able to bomb other layers at a heavy price while still holding their own in their own layer with layer specific main weapons. A unit like this makes other orbital units like transports viable, becuase there will need to be a way to clear landing zones as things stand currently anyway.

And as for the unique elements these would bring? Interplanetary assaults. There is much more in common with the sub-naval and orbital layers than you give credit. To dismiss the 1 as boring while giving credit to the other still makes absolutely no sense to me.

Re: Orbital "air" units an acceptable form of space combat i

How did the robots get to different planets? Are you telling me Robots wouldn't attempt to prevent other robots from coming to their planets in the first place? In a game where the planets are now actually visualized instead of imagined are you going to tell me I still have to imagine on my own how they got there when there are perfectly reasonable ways to accomplish this in game? There is a ton of features this game has that TA didn't. Telling someone their idea shouldn't count because TA didn't have it is as Herp Derp as it gets.

Re: Orbital "air" units an acceptable form of space combat i

Then I totally agree (as reads my last sentence of my previous post). It also seems that you could have misinterpreted the OP, thanks for clarifying Iron . Using analogies can give the wrong idea sometimes unfortunately. I also had an extremely hard time explaining something like a range vs camera zoom level concept one time, which got me some flak.

I think the question at the start could be a bit ambiguous. I interpreted it as: should there be combat craft in the orbital layer (instead of just satellites, which some people seem to like), that is why I voted "Yes".

I think nobody wants a simple duplicate of any other layer or any other layer's interactions. If that would be the case, it would be even better just to stick with satellites I think . My guess is that is why Mike advocated "No".

Re: Orbital "air" units an acceptable form of space combat i

To be frank, I think this is more so just an ideas inter-mixed, left undefined and badly communicated.

When using comparisons the expectation is that the comparisons have meaning, based on how iron layed out, comparing underwater structures and orbital structures and the like, I think shows a lack of understanding or at least not being sure how to communicate the idea.

No one calls air transports Amphibious because they land to load/unload units or because they can drop off actual amphibious units on the water. Terms(particularly when it comes to RTS terminology) do with particular meanings attached, if you want to use them you have to be aware of what they are and if you need a slightly different definition you need to make sure your audience is aware you're using it differently.

Anyways, I voted no because Orbital units acting or being alike to air units is bad and boring, if the intent was simply to include more 'combat' in the orbital layer, I still vote no because I feel the potential side effects could mess with the "proposed" focus on planetary surface combat.

Mike

Re: Orbital "air" units an acceptable form of space combat i

I voted no. I think it is perfectly reasonable for us to request that future modding "hooks" or capabilities be considered/added to allow for a space combat mod. I don't think it is desirable to have a hacked together half implementation of space combat just for the sake of having it in.

Space combat is outside the scope of the game to be released in December, stop asking for it. Ask for sufficient mod support for us to add it ourselves only.

Re: Orbital "air" units an acceptable form of space combat i

Having orbital combat doesn't necessarily shift the focus of the game. As far as I know, no one will have an orbital commander lol. planetary surface combat will happen across multiple worlds simultaneously, regardless. Just as you cannot fight on a large island map without crossing the water so too won't you be able to fight across planets without moving through orbital layers. One way or another you will pass through the orbital layer, and that is just another potential battleground among the many each planet will have. Does it not make sense to treat that layer as a 1st class citizen like all the others?

Re: Orbital "air" units an acceptable form of space combat i

But it could, which is what I said. Another Reason(although a secondary one) that Space Units aren't being done is that trying to balance them against surface units is likely going to be awkward at best unless you 'cheat' and do it arbitrarily. Basically when you have large Capital Ships, with weaponry that works at long ranges(compared to surface combat) with the power to destroy other capital ships, how you you stop them from decimating any surface based force?

My idea Orbital setup fills much more of a supporting role to better compliment Surface based combat. to learn more check ou thte earlier threads on Interplanetary Transport and Satellites via the Thread Index.

Mike

Re: Orbital "air" units an acceptable form of space combat i

As far as I know there will be combat in orbit? Haven't asteroid fire bases been hinted at? I know that there is the orbital weapon's platform. I am fairly certain that we will hove some kind of anti-asteroid missile.

If we can build anti-asteroid missiles on an asteroid and have it hunt enemy asteroid bases, would this not be space combat?

Re: Orbital "air" units an acceptable form of space combat i

I don't think having some defensive orbital platforms that try to deny insertion of units from external sources (think assault bots entering atmosphere in pitch video), is what the OP is referring to.

Re: Orbital "air" units an acceptable form of space combat i

We know next to nothing about orbital, there are ideas and concepts of course, but until they make it ingame and get balanced we have no way of knowing in advance exactly what will make the cut.

Mike